EFTA00230786

1 
2 
3 
he will do it, but that's where thi 
 
 
need to be fought. 
As a matter of comity.- your 1---r a 
n 
4 
this Court should defer to J 
5 
because, A, he has already r 
6 
disclosure of the nonpros ag 
7 
8 
9 
udge Ma 
tiled on. 
-t 
1-
reement 
even more importantly, the s -up remac -yam 
a 
requires you to defer to the federa ::It_ 
1 
of criminal procedure that say thes 
 
10 
matters should be protected and sho 
11 
be disclosed unless the district co 
12 
13 
If the Court is going to go c="" 
14 
wants to go to the issues that wou 1 e-
a 
15 
contained 
if 
it 
were not dealing 
wi 
16 
grand 
jury 
proceeding, 
obviously 
th ••-  
r 
e 
17 
test 
that 
the 
Court 
must 
then 
use 
un. 
e 
18 
Rules of Judicial 
Administration 
andL 
19 
says matters 
can be sealed 
but 
they 
20 
be sealed if there's a compel ling 
21 
government interest or if the sealin_ 
h 
22 
important to the administration of 
1._.2. 
s 
23 
There's 
a 
couple 
other 
criteria
, lou .
- 
t 
24 
ones obviously 
that 
would app 1 Y in 
_.._ 
1.-a. i. 
25 
case are 
the 
compelling 
government 
SUSAN WIGGINS, 
R.P.R. AND OFFICIAL COURT P.
PORTEI
.___ 
EFTA00231366

20 
1 
he will do it, but that's where this battle 
2 
need to be fought. 
3 
As a matter of comity, your Honor, 
4 
this Court should defer to Judge Marra 
5 
because, A, he has already ruled on the 
6 
disclosure of the nonpros agreement, but 
7 
even more importantly, the supremacy clause 
8 
requires you to defer to the federal laws 
9 
of criminal procedure that say these 
10 
matters should be protected and should not 
11 
be disclosed unless the district court says 
12 
13 
If the Court is going to go on and 
14 
wants to go to the issues that would be 
15 
contained if it were not dealing with a 
16 
grand jury proceeding, obviously there's a 
17 
test that the Court must then use under the 
18 
Rules of Judicial Administration and it 
19 
says matters can be sealed but they should 
20 
be sealed if there's a compelling 
21 
government interest or if the sealing is 
22 
important to the administration of justice. 
23 
There's a couple other criteria, but the 
24 
ones obviously that would apply in this 
25 
case are the compelling government 
SUSAN WIGGINS, R.P.R. AND OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 
EFTA00231367

21 
1 
interest, and the importance to the 
2 
administration of justice. 
3 
Again, we are dealing with a secret 
4 
grand jury matter. We cannot circumvent 
5 
that secrecy by asking the Court to invoke 
6 
its unsealing power. 
7 
THE COURT: Thank you. 
8 
MR. GOLDBERGER: Thank you, your 
9 
Honor. 
10 
THE COURT: Let me go over to the 
11 
other parties and we'll get back to 
12 
Mr. Goldberger and his client. Post, who 
13 
wants to go first? 
14 
MS. SHULLMAN: Mr. Edwards. 
15 
THE COURT: Mr. Edwards. 
16 
MR. EDWARDS: Your Honor, inasmuch as 
17 
Mr. Epstein is relying on Judge Marra's 
18 
order to support the argument that the 
19 
nonprosecution agreement needs to remain 
20 
sealed, I'd like to address that if you are 
21 
inclined to be persuaded by that argument 
22 
at all. 
23 
The orders that have now been moved 
24 
into evidence are in case No. 80736, and 
25 
just to put that order in context in 
SUSAN WIGGINS, R.P.R. AND OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 
EFTA00231368

22 
1 
actuality, the order says -- specifically 
2 
puts it back on this Court and confers 
3 
authority on this Court over this 
4 
particular document, when in the second 
5 
page of the February 12th, 2009 order, it's 
6 
misdated 2009 but it's a 2009 order, and 
7 
the last two sentences read: If and when 
8 
petitioners have a specific tangible need 
9 
to be relieved of the restrictions, they 
10 
should file an appropriate motion, which we 
11 
believe we have done in this case, if a 
12 
specific tangle need arises in the civil 
13 
cases, which are in circuit court in Palm 
14 
Beach County, then relief should be sought 
15 
there and notice to all parties, II to give 
16 
the Court context for that order, there was 
17 
a state court plea taken June 30th, 2008, 
18 
where Mr. Epstein pled guilty to the state 
19 
court cases as it related to two victims. 
20 
Now, parallel to that, there was an 
21 
investigation in federal court where the 
22 
United States attorney's office and the FBI 
23 
had more than 30 victims of sex abuse of 
24 
Mr. Epstein's and they were working with 
25 
these girls and their cases. Now, several 
SUSAN WIGGINS, R.P.R. AND OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 
EFTA00231369

23 
1 
of those girls came to me and said, hey, 
2 
we're worried that there's a secret deal 
3 
going on between Epstein and the U.S. 
4 
attorney's office, so I filed an emergency 
5 
petition against the U.S. attorney's office 
6 
asking the federal court to intervene and 
7 
get in the middle of this and not let this 
8 
deal go forward without meaningfully 
9 
conferring with these girls because I was 
10 
alleging it violated the Crimes Victim's 
11 
Rights Act; these girls have a right to be 
12 
heard. That emergency motion was filed 
13 
July 7th, 2008, and I have that for the 
14 
Court, and I'd like to enter that into 
15 
evidence as well. 
16 
THE COURT: We'll mark that as EW's 
17 
Exhibit No. 1. 
18 
MR. EDWARDS: And an emergency 
19 
hearing was held four days later in front 
20 
of Judge Marra, who was randomly assigned 
21 
to this case at the time the plea was taken 
22 
and the prosecution agreement was sealed. 
23 
Judge Marra had nothing to do with the 
24 
agreement, with Epstein, he didn't know 
25 
anything about it. 
SUSAN WIGGINS, R.P.R. AND OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 
EFTA00231370

24 
1 
II four days later now we're in front 
2 
of him and the United States attorney's 
3 
office says for the first time, sorry, 
4 
girls, you are too late, the deal has 
5 
already been done as to all of your federal 
6 
cases and it resulted in the nonprosecution 
7 
agreement that is attached in the state 
8 
court case. Judge Marra turned to us and 
9 
said, what is your remedy. 
10 
At that point in time I said we don't 
11 
know because we don't know what protections 
12 
are inside that agreement, II we want you 
13 
to unseal it, that's where the motion for 
14 
protective order came about where he gave 
15 
us the agreement II we can look at it and 
16 
determine what remedy, if any, was 
17 
available. Once we had that agreement 
18 
under the caveat that we were not able to 
19 
disseminate to third parties and reviewed 
20 
it and saw there is very little protection 
21 
for the girls, we asked to unseal it 
22 
completely, ll that we can talk to third 
-------------
23 
parties, to victim's rights groups and get 
24 
some insight as to what our possible remedy 
25 
would be. 
SUSAN WIGGINS, R.P.R. AND OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 
EFTA00231371

25 
1 
And II our reason for wanting him to 
2 
unseal it at that time was we want to be 
3 
able to talk to other people, and that's 
4 
where this order from February 12th, 2009, 
5 
came in, and he denied that motion to 
6 
unseal it for three reasons. 
7 
First and foremost, this 
8 
nonprosecution agreement was not sealed in 
9 
my Court, you are talking to the wrong 
10 
judge, you need to go back, ll we're 
11 
getting the back and forth here and it's 
12 
not in my court, I can't mess with some 
13 
other judge's order. Obviously, there was 
14 
a hearing held and that document was sealed 
15 
for a reason, I'm not privy for those 
16 
reasons, II I'm not going to override 
17 
whatever that judge was thinking when they 
18 
sealed that document. 
19 
Second, your reason is you just want 
20 
to talk to other people about them, and if 
21 
I'm going to override some other judge's 
22 
order, I need to have a more compelling 
23 
reason than you just want to talk to people 
24 
about. 
25 
Third, if and when a specific need 
SUSAN WIGGINS, R.P.R. AND OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 
EFTA00231372

26 
1 
arises in any of the civil cases, which by 
2 
the time this order was coming about they 
3 
were stacking up in state and federal court 
4 
against Mr. Epstein, petition that court, 
5 
petition the appropriate court, and he 
6 
implies that appropriate court is this 
7 
court where it was initially sealed, which 
8 
we've done in this case. 
9 
This court has none of the problems 
10 
that Judge Marra had in that it was sealed 
11 
in this courtroom. We have noticed 
12 
Mr. Epstein to be heard at this hearing, 
13 
which is one of the requirements that 
14 
Judge Marra placed on us, and a specific 
15 
need has arisen. It has been sealed for 
16 
over a year now, correct, Mr. Goldberger is 
17 
correct, but the specific need is arising 
18 
because we are in the middle of discovery. 
19 
And this document is, as Mr. Goldberger 
20 
said, a great inducement to Mr. Epstein 
21 
pleaing guilty to sex crimes in state 
22 
court, and to ultimately being labeled a 
23 
sex offender, and the only document that 
24 
pertains to my clients, my client as a 
25 
victim of Mr. Epstein's sex crime, II at 
SUSAN WIGGINS, R.P.R. AND OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 
EFTA00231373

27 
1 
the very least, we should be allowed to ask 
2 
people in deposition and do discovery about 
3 
how this document came about. There is a 
4 
need here. 
5 
THE COURT: I don't quite get -- I 
6 
don't think it's relevant to what my task 
7 
is here, but I don't get how it's relevant 
8 
in the civil cases what the federal 
9 
government did or didn't do with regard to 
10 
prosecuting Mr. Epstein. I don't get that, 
11 
but I don't know that I need to. 
12 
MR. EDWARDS: The standard for 
13 
discovery is just reasonably calculated to 
14 
lead to discovery of admissible evidence 
15 
and without going in depth we do have 
16 
intention --
17 
MR. GERBER: Your Honor, can I 
18 
MR. EDWARDS: And with respect to the 
19 
grand jury argument, you've seen the 
20 
document, it's only page five and six that 
21 
it's even referred to. 
22 
THE COURT: All right. Let me turn 
23 
it over to -- does the Post want to speak? 
24 
MS. SHULLMAN: I do, but I think he 
25 
wants to go first II whenever. 
SUSAN WIGGINS, R.P.R. AND OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 
EFTA00231374

28 
1 
THE COURT: I haven't considered your 
2 
motion to intervene yet. 
3 
MR. KUVIN: I don't believe it was an 
4 
objection. When it was filed, there was no 
objection by Mr. Goldberger or Mr. Critton. 
6 
THE COURT: Are you going to advocate 
7 
by motion to intervene or are you going to 
8 
be jumping into the merits of the sealing? 
9 
MR. KUVIN: I'll jump right into the 
10 
merits, I'm not going to duplicate anything 
11 
that was just raised or anything that the 
12 
press is going to raise, I have an 
13 
individual interest. 
14 
THE COURT: All right. Go ahead 
15 
Mr. Kuvin. 
16 
MR. KUVIN: Very briefly, your Honor. 
17 
I represent II who has filed only a state 
18 
court action, she is not under the federal 
19 
jurisdiction of Judge Marra, she does not 
20 
subject herself to the federal jurisdiction 
21 
of Judge Marra, she was never provided an 
22 
opportunity to brief any issues before 
23 
Judge Marra with respect to that order that 
24 
was entered by Judge Marra or either order. 
25 
In addition, what's also very important is 
SUSAN WIGGINS, R.P.R. AND OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 
EFTA00231375

29 
1 
she has never seen this document, so she 
2 
does not know what is in the contents of 
3 
the order, so the issue is raised by 
4 
Mr. Goldberger about the girls are able to 
5 
6 
7 
8 
9 
.10 
11 
12 
see the document and evaluate how they 
might need to evaluate this document does 
not apply to my client because she has 
never seen it and, frankly, without 
subjecting herself voluntarily to the 
jurisdiction of Judge Marra, which she 
chooses not to do, then she cannot get this 
document, otherwise she would have to go to 
13 
federal court, submit herself to the 
14 
jurisdiction of the federal court to then 
15 
see a state court document, which does not 
16 
make any sense because if it is a state 
17 
court document in state court, as 
18 
previously stated under Judge Marra's 
19 
order, it is within your purview and your 
20 
jurisdiction to rule on a state court 
21 
document. 
22 
Finally, with respect to why the 
23 
document may be relevant, the contents of 
24 
that document speak to the issues of 
25 
whether or not Mr. Epstein can or cannot 
SUSAN WIGGINS, R.P.R. AND OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 
EFTA00231376

30 
1 
assert his fifth amendment right against 
2 
self incrimination, and we believe on a 
3 
good faith believe that on the contents of 
4 
that document speak to the issues of 
5 
whether or not he can or cannot deny the 
6 
claims that have been brought against him 
7 
both in state and federal court. In other 
8 
words, whether or not he must, in fact, 
9 
admit that he molested these 14 year old 
10 
girls, so, therefore, the content of that 
11 
document is paramount as to the issues in 
12 
the civil proceedings that are currently 
13 
pending in state court which is why we 
14 
would like that document. 
15 
THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. Thank 
16 
you so very much. Ms. Shullman from the 
17 
Post. 
18 
MS. SHULLMAN: Thank you, your Honor. 
19 
I feel a little bit like I have stepped 
20 
into the twilight zone here, so I'd like to 
21 
address a couple of the things we've 
22 
addressed and get us to what we are really 
23 
here to do today. 
24 
THE COURT: I don't know if you are 
25 
referring specifically to the courtroom or 
SUSAN WIGGINS, R.P.R. AND OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 
EFTA00231377

31 
1 
the convoluted situation that brings us to 
2 
the courtroom. 
3 
MS. SHULLMAN: Just this whole 
4 
federal state situation. There is no hill 
5 
for the public and the press to march up in 
6 
Judge Marra's court as Mr. Edwards pointed 
7 
out, Judge Marra has specifically held the 
8 
agreement was not filed in this case under 
9 
seal or otherwise, so were I to march into 
10 
Judge Marra's courtroom and do my whole 
11 
public access spiel, he would say take it 
12 
to you, your Honor, because it's not a 
13 
record in my court. It is a record here, 
14 
and in the state court as we talked about 
15 
the last time, we were here, there's a 
16 
presumption of openness. The burden is on 
17 
Mr. Epstein to overcome that presumption. 
18 
While he filed a very brief memorandum 
19 
after our last hearing, which identified 
20 
for interest, he has by no means met the 
21 
test of either establishing those interest 
22 
or establishing the remainder of that test 
 23  
 
which woad be that closures no broader 
24 
than necessary ineffective no other 
25 
reasonable alternatives, so if I could, I'd 
SUSAN WIGGINS, R.P.R. AND OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 
EFTA00231378

32 
1 
like to sort of focus us back to the 
2 
inquiry we're here to make today in this 
3 
court, and that is whether your Honor is 
4 
going to provide public access to two 
5 
records that are, I think, indisputably in 
6 
your Honor's court file in this court's 
7 
file. 
8 
It's a plea agreement and an 
9 
addendum; those are historically and 
10 
typically open records. 
11 
Mr. Goldberger mentioned that the 
12 
plea agreement was sort of incidentally 
13 
filed in this court file, and that it was 
14 
sort of an afterthought that happened. He 
15 
never came into court intending that it 
16 
even be part of the court file, but 
17 
Judge Pucillo specifically said, this is a 
18 
significant inducement to accepting the 
19 
plea in my court. This agreement that you 
20 
have with federal prosecutors is 
21 
significantly the reason why you're 
22 
entering this plea before me. And she took 
23 
those records into the court file 
24 
presumably because they are significant to 
25 
this litigation. Even if there was an 
SUSAN WIGGINS, R.P.R. AND OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 
EFTA00231379

33 
1 
incidental filing, which cannot possibly be 
2 
the case here, there is no mechanism in 
3 
Florida law to call a Mulligan and to pull 
4 
it out of the court file. As you know, the 
5 
Floridians have a constitutional right of 
6 
access, there's no mechanism in that law to 
7 
just say, oopsy, let's take it out of the 
8 
file, so they have to meet their burden and 
9 
they have to show under Rule 2.420 that one 
10 
of those interests is satisfied. They have 
11 
identified four here. I have not heard 
12 
them discuss them at any great length. But 
13 
I will go through them quickly. 
14 
The imminent threat to the fair, 
15 
impartial orderly administration of 
16 
justice, or to protect a compelling 
17 
government interest. As your Honor is 
18 
aware, the federal government is not here 
19 
today. I have spoken with the state 
20 
attorney's office who has indicated that 
21 
their only interest is in protecting to the 
22 
extent necessary because I've not seen 
2-1 
these documents the identity of the victims 
24 
of these crimes. 
25 
The Post in its motion to intervene 
SUSAN WIGGINS, R.P.R. AND OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 
EFTA00231380

34 
1 
has already set forth that we have no 
2 
objection to redacting the victim's names 
3 
if, in fact, that is required because we 
4 
haven't seen the agreement. To avoid 
5 
substantial injury to innocent third 
6 
parties, again, absolutely no showing on 
7 
that test. I have no burden at this point, 
8 
but I will simply state that the law in 
9 
Florida is clear that Mr. Epstein doesn't 
10 
have standing to assert that interest. 
11 
And, finally, something else I heard 
12 
nothing about to avoid substantial injury 
13 
to a party which, I guess, presumably would 
14 
be Mr. Epstein by disclosure of matters 
15 
protected by a privacy right not generally 
16 
inherent in this specific type of 
17 
proceedings. Again, I have not heard any 
18 
attempt to meet the burden on that issue, 
19 
however, Florida law is equally clear that 
20 
participants in crimes lose their privacy 
21 
interest in the matters and facts and 
22 
circumstances of the commission of those 
23 
crimes, so Mr. Epstein surely cannot 
24 
establish that there is a separate privacy 
25 
interest not inherent in a criminal 
SUSAN WIGGINS, R.P.R. AND OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 
EFTA00231381

35 
1 
prosecution regarding the molestation of 
2 
young girls. 
3 
The circumstances under which closure 
4 
is allowed in Florida are exceedingly 
5 
narrow. We first -- and before we do 
6 
anything else -- have to find that one of 
7 
those interests is met here, that it exists 
8 
and that the movant has met its burden in 
9 
demonstrating that it's significant enough 
10 
to require the court to consider closure. 
11 
That's not the end of inquiry. And, of 
12 
course, I have not yet heard anything else 
13 
about that second half of the test which 
14 
talks about the idea that closure is no 
15 
broader than necessary to protect that 
16 
interest and that it would be effective and 
17 
that there are no other alternatives. 
18 
In speaking of the federal litigation 
19 
there are instances when both Mr. Epstein's 
20 
lawyers and the federal prosecutors have 
21 
placed portions of the agreement into the 
22 
public court file. There are -- thus 
23 
attempts to seal those records in the 
• 24 
federal litigation have been unsuccessful, 
25 
so part of this agreement the cat is 
SUSAN WIGGINS, R.P.R. AND OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 
EFTA00231382

36 
1 
already out of the bag. But there is also 
2 
an enormous public interest in what's going 
3 
on here, apart from the idea that this man 
4 
is accused of having many, many victims who 
5 
were all young children which, of course, 
6 
in itself creates a lot of public concern, 
7 
the chief of police at the time sent a 
8 
letter to the state prosecutors and said, 
9 
what are you guys doing, how are you 
10 
handling this, this is highly unusual; I 
11 
don't like what I'm seeing here. And even 
12 
went so far as to say, state attorney's 
13 
office, should you all step away from this 
14 
case. 
15 
So we have public interest from the 
16 
perspective of the police chief questioning 
17 
the state attorney's office about whether 
18 
it's doing its job. We have public 
19 
interest that's spurned by the idea that 
20 
some of the victims in the federal 
21 
prosecution -- in the federal court claimed 
22 
they weren't aware of it, we just heard 
— 23
—  
Mr. Edwards talk about the fact that his 
24 
clients weren't aware of the agreement 
25 
unless it all went down, so we have a 
SUSAN WIGGINS, R.P.R. AND OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 
EFTA00231383

37 
1 
significant public interest about how 
2 
everybody in this litigation is doing their 
3 
job. There is nothing more fundamentally 
4 
important than the ability of the public 
5 
and the press to observe how its 
6 
government, all branches of its government, 
7 
do its job. 
8 
There are multiple, as Mr. Edwards 
9 
also mentioned, multiple civil lawsuits 
10 
that have spurned as a result of 
11 
Mr. Epstein's conduct, and, again, the 
12 
public has an interest in what's going on 
13 
in civil litigation matters. 
14 
In short, this matter involves a 
15 
major public interest from a lot of 
16 
different levels. There is no basis for 
17 
closure that has been asserted here. It's 
18 
a heavy burden to meet. We start with the 
19 
idea that openness is the right thing to do 
20 
but there is essentially no purpose served 
21 
at this point by keeping these agreements 
22 
sealed in this case. 
23 
Unless your Honor has any questions, 
24 
I think that's it. 
25 
THE COURT: Okay. Thank you so very 
SUSAN WIGGINS, R.P.R. AND OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 
EFTA00231384

38 
1 
much. 
Ms. Burns, on behalf of the state of 
2 
Florida, anything you'd like to add or 
3 
advocate? 
4 
MS. BURNS: If I may, your Honor. 
5 
THE COURT: Sure. 
6 
MS. BURNS: Good afternoon, your 
7 
Honor. 
8 
THE COURT: Good afternoon. 
9 
MS. BURNS: Your Honor, the State is 
10 
not here to take a position on whether or 
11 
not this court should seal -- continue to 
12 
seal the records or unseal the records. 
We 
13 
are here merely to uphold the state laws 
14 
which require all of us as members of the 
15 
judicial system to protect the rights of 
16 
the confidentiality of the victims. I do 
17 
see two issues here, your Honor. 
18 
One is if you decide to unseal the 
19 
records based upon the arguments that have 
20 
been presented to you, then the State would 
21 
ask that the court first do an incamera 
22 
viewing, not just merely open up that 
23 
portion of the file for viewing by all 
24 
interested parties, first, that the Court 
25 
do an incamera viewing to make two 
SUSAN WIGGINS, R.P.R. AND OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 
EFTA00231385