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1 A. "Yes."
2 Q. "Did that start when she was approximately age
3 14?"
4 A. "Yes."
5 4• "Did it continue until she was about age 17?"
6 A. "Yes, it did."
7 Q. "And during those years does she regularly go over
8 to Epstein's house in Palm Beach and spend time with Maxwell
9 and Epstein?"
10 A. "Yes."
11 Q. "What happened in the summer of 1997 when
12 was 17, about to turn 18?"
13 A. "She moved to New York City."
14 Q. "Why did she move to New York City?"
15 A. "She wanted to pursue a career in acting and
16 modeling."
17 Q. "We'll talk about that in a moment, but for now, I
18 want to focus on the years you talked about, in Palm Beach,
19 from the ages 14 to 17, when would regularly go to
20 Epstein's house. In the beginning, in the first few months
21 when she went there, what kinds of things did she do when
22 she would visit the house when Maxwell and Epstein were
23 there?"
24 A. "They'd hang out by the pool. He -- they would
25 take her to the movies, take her shopping. She described
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1 that behavior as grooming."
2 Q. "When you say grooming, did she explain what she
3 meant by that?"
4 A. "She meant that they were building a relationship
5 with her, giving her things, taking her places, and then
6 usually when the grooming happens, an offender will -- once
7 they gain that trust -- they will make their relationship
8 turn sexual."
9 Q. "Now you testified just a moment ago that
10 described to you that she felt at this time period they were
11 grooming her, is that right?"
12 A. "Yes."
13 Q. "Is that something that she realized at the time
14 when she was 14, or is that something she's described to you
15 now?"
16 A. "Something she's described now. She didn't
17 realize that at the time."
18 Q. "So we'll talk a little bit more about grooming in
19 a moment, but just to give context, are you familiar with
20 the term grooming based on your experience investigating
21 crimes involving sexual exploitation of minors?"
22 A. "Yes."
23 Q. "Generally speaking, you were touching on this a
24 moment ago, but if you could just explain it in full, what
25 is grooming?"
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A. "Grooming is when someone builds a relationship
2 with a child. They will find a vulnerability or a need and
3 then they work on gaining that child's trust. And then
4 often times gaining a parent's trust. Once they have that
5 trust, they show that in ways that they can care about them;
6 like giving them gifts and promises. And then once that's
7 established, they then turn the relationship sexual; often
8 times, making sexual comments and normalizing the behavior."
9 Q. "Now during these visits that you've been
10 describing, that told you about, did say whether
11 Epstein ever gave her anything?"
12 A. "Yes, she did."
13 Q. "What did he give her?"
14 A. "He gave her cash. Sometimes he'd tell her to
15 give the cash to her mom because he knew that they needed
16 it. He paid for her voice lessons as well."
17 Q. "Now you were describing how has
18 characterized these visits now, but based on your
19 conversations with her, at the time did she feel that these
20 visits were strange at all?"
21 A. "She thought they were strange, but Maxwell
22 normalized it for her. She was like a cool, older sister
23 and made comments like, this is what grownups do."
24 Q. "You used the phrase cool, older sister. Is that
25 a phrase that used to describe how she felt about
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1 Maxwell at the time, and what Maxwell was like?"
2 A. "Yes. Those are her words."
3 Q. "Did there come a time -- these visits --
4 saw Maxwell topless by the pool?"
5 A. "Yes."
6 Q. "What did she tell you about that?"
7 A. "She was a little taken back, but Maxwell just
8 acted normal."
9 Q. "Did tell you about an incident several
10 months into this arrangement when she was alone with Epstein
11 in the pool house?"
12 A. "Yes."
13 Q. "And when they were alone together, did Epstein
14 ask what she wanted to do with her life?"
15 A. "He did."
16 Q. "What did she say?"
17 A. "She said she wanted to be an actress and n
18 model."
19 Q. "How did Epstein respond?"
20 A. "He told her that he was best friends with the
21 owner of Victoria's Secret. Told her that she would have to
22 have photographs taken and that she had to be comfortable in
23 her underwear and not be a prude. When she was asked what
24 she meant by that, he pulled her into his lap and
25 masturbated."
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1 Q• "What was her reaction?"
2 A. "She felt paralyzed. She froze."
3 Q. "After this incident did 's encounters with
4 Epstein begin to include sexual contact?"
5 A. "Yes."
6 Q. "Over time did the sexual abuse escalate?"
7 A. "It did."
8 Q. "From what she's described to you, did the abuse
9 include Epstein digitally penetrating
10 A. "Yes."
11 Q. "Did it include Epstein using a vibrator on her?"
12 A. "Yes."
13 Q. "Did she describe to you that there were times
14 when Epstein would direct to massage him while he
15 masturbated?"
16 A. "Yes."
17 Q. "Did explain to you what her memories are
18 like of the abuse?"
19 A. "Yes."
20 Q. "What did she say about that?"
21 A. "She said that it happened so often that it al
22 kind it all runs together for her. That it's hard to
23 separate out some of the different instances of abuse."
24 Q. "You were describing how explained to you
25 that the abuse began. Did that occur, based on what
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1 told you, within the first year that she met Epstein and
2 Maxwell?"
3 A. "Yes."
4 Q. "Now did also describe to you that once this
5 abuse started Epstein would also bring her into his massage
6 room in his house?"
7 A. "Yes."
8 Q. "And were there times, where he did this, where
9 there were other women present, including Maxwell?"
10 A. "Yes."
11 Q. "Was abused during those episodes?"
12 A. "Yes, she was."
13 Q. "During these group encounters what were and
14 the adult women wearing?"
15 A. "They were usually just in their underwear."
16 Q. "Once they were all in the massage room, how would
17 these episodes generally start?"
18 A. "They would generally start with one of the girls
19 massaging Epstein. was usually massaging his feet.
20 Maxwell was kind of teasing the other girls. She'd grab the
21 girl's breasts, and she would direct the girls on what to
22 do."
23 Q. "When these episodes would start, in general, was
24 Epstein generally lying face down on the massage table?"
25 A. "Yes."
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1 Q. "What would happen as things progressed, generally
2 speaking, from what she described to you?"
3 A. "When Epstein would decide he was kind of done
4 with the regular massage, he would turn over on his back,
5 and he'd grab whichever girl he wanted to, either, touch him
6 or whatever girl he wanted to touch."
7 Q. "Did these episodes include sex acts that over
8 time, in various instances, included Epstein masturbating,
9 Epstein receiving oral sex, and Epstein engaging in
10 intercourse?"
11 A. "Yes."
12 Q. "You were describing for a moment what tos,
13 you about Maxwell's role during these group encounters.
14 Would Maxwell sometimes guide the women and give
15 instructions about what to do?"
16 A. "Yes, she would."
17 Q. "What would typically do during these
18 episodes?"
19 A. "She would try not to look at Maxwell because she
20 gave off that sister-vibe, so it felt weird for her. She
21 would try to be invisible in the room so they would ignore
22 her as much as possible."
23 Q. "In the beginning, when 's approximately 16
24 or 15, would she generally begin by just massaging Epstein's
25 feet?"
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1 A. "Yes."
2 Q. "Is that something she was told to do?"
3 A. "Yes."
4 Q. "Did she -- you mentioned that she tried to be
5 invisible -- was -- I believe that was your testimony?"
6 A. "Yes."
7 Q. "And over time has she described to you that over
8 time she believed she became more involved in the sexual
9 activity which varied in each encounter?"
10 A. "Yes."
11 Q. "Were there times let me rephrase that. How
12 did -- you touched on this for a moment, but just to be
13 clear -- how did describe Maxwell's attitude during
14 these incidents?"
15 A. "It was very casual; she acted like this was
16 normal. She gave off that vibe to her and yeah."
17 Q. "Did that make her feel more comfortable with what
18 was happening?"
19 A. "It did."
20 Q. "Was sometimes fully nude during these
21 episodes?"
22 A. "Yes."
23 Q. "And during these episodes did the abuse include
24 Epstein touching 's breasts?"
25 A. "Yes."
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1 Q. "Did it include directing to touch Epstein's
2 genitals?"
3 A. "Yes."
4 Q. "Beginning when 's approximately 14, does
5 she begin to travel with Epstein and Maxwell to
6 New York City on occasion?"
7 A. "Yes, she did."
8 Q. "Was that to the property you testified about
9 earlier; the townhouse on the upper-east side?"
10 A. "Yes."
11 Q. "When traveled to New York City, did she
12 stay in Epstein's townhouse in New York City?
13 A. "Yes, she did."
14 Q. "Did she recall that Maxwell and Epstein took her
15 shopping on one of her early trips to New York City?"
16 A. "Yes."
17 Q. "Did she remember them buying her anything?"
18 A. "She recalled them buying her white cotton
19 underwear. Her description was that they were like little
20 girl's underwear."
21 Q. "From ages 14 to 17 did Epstein ask to
22 periodically fly to New York for weekends at that townhouse
23 in New York?"
24 A. "I'm sorry, say it again?"
25 Q. "You testified that she began travelling to
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1 New York City at age 14. Did she then periodically travel
2 to New York City, in a similar manner, from ages 14 to 17?"
3 A. "Yes."
4 Q. "Were there times, when she travelled on those
5 trips, when she flew on Epstein's private jet?"
6 A. "Yes."
7 Q. "Did she also sometimes fly commercially?"
8 A. "Yes, she did."
9 Q. "Was Maxwell sometimes present on the trips to New
10 York?"
11 A. "Yes."
12 Q. "You testified earlier that was sexually
13 abused in Palm Beach. Did she describe to you that she was
14 also sexually abused on these trips to New York?"
15 A. "Yes, she did."
16 Q. "Did Maxwell encourage to go on these
17 trips?"
18 A. "Yes."
19 Q. "What does -- what did tell you about
20 her memory of how these trips were arranged?"
21 A. "She recalled that Maxwell was usually the one
22 that would schedule her flights. If she was flying
23 commercially she would schedule the flights, sometimes
24 calling her mother to schedule."
25 Q. "Was that the general impression of how they were
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1 arranged?"
2 A. "Yes."
3 Q. "In addition to the trips to New York City you
4 just described, did also remember travelling, at least
5 once, to Epstein's ranch in New Mexico?"
6 A. "Yes, she did."
7 Q. "Does she remember whether or not she was sexually
8 abused in New Mexico?"
9 A. "She couldn't recall. She couldn't remember."
10 Q. "In general, how would get to the airport in
11 Florida when she would fly on Epstein's jet; what did she
12 describe to you?"
13 A. "Usually a driver; one of Epstein's drivers would
14 pick her up from her house and take her to the airport."
15 Q. "Now you testified earlier that you reviewed
16 flight records for Epstein's private jet, is that correct?"
17 A. "Yes."
18 Q. "And have you reviewed records from the 1990s to
19 see if there -- whether there's a person named listed
20 on the records?"
21 A. "Yes."
22 Q. "Turning to the next slide. Is this an excerpt
23 from those records?"
24 A. "Yes, it is."
25 Q. "And does the red arrow point to does the red
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1 arrow point to a November 11th, 1996 flight?"
2 A. "Yes, it does."
3 Q. "And does this say -- does this flight log reflect
4 that it was a flight from Palm Beach, Florida to Teterboro,
5 New Jersey?"
6 A. "Yes."
7 Q. "Is there a private airfield in Teterboro,
8 New Jersey?"
9 A. "Yes, there is."
10 Q. "What's it called?"
11 A. "Teterboro Airport."
12 Q. "Are the passengers listed on this entry JE?"
13 A. "Yes."
14 Q. "Are the -- do the entries also include
15 (ph) plus friend, Jeff Shamf's (ph), family,
16 ■ (ph), (ph), (ph), and ?"
17 A. "Yes."
18 Q. "Was , based on your awareness of 's
19 date of birth and the date of this flight, was on
20 the date of this flight?"
21 A. "Yes, she was."
22 Q. "Turning to the next slide. You testified earlier
23 about Teterboro Airport. What are we looking at on this
24 slide?"
25 A. "This is directions from Teterboro Airport to
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1 Epstein's residence here in Manhattan."
2 Q. "So based on your review of this map, if someone
3 were to fly into Teterboro and travel to New York City,
4 would they -- would the most natural route be to travel to
5 Teterboro Airport and crossing into New York through
6 Manhattan?"
7 A. "Yes."
8 Q. "Turning to the next slide. Is this also an
9 excerpt from the flight records that you've reviewed?"
10 A. "Yes, it is."
11 Q. "And does this show a May 9, 1997 flight from
12 Teterboro, New Jersey to Santa Fe, New Mexico?"
13 A. "Yes, it does."
14 Q. "And are the passengers listed on this log JE, GM,
15 and ? II
16 A. "Yes."
17 Q. "Based on your knowledge of 's birthdate and
18 the date of this flight, would have been 16 on the
19 date of this flight?"
20 A. "Yes, she would have been."
21 Q. "Turning to the next flight -- slide. Is this
22 also an excerpt from the flight records?"
23 A. "Yes."
24 Q. "And does the red arrow point to a flight entry on
25 May 3, 1998?"
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A. "Yes, it does."
Q. "Based on the airport codes, did this reflect that
3 there is a flight on that date from Palm Beach, Florida to
4 Teterboro, New Jersey?"
5 A. "Yes."
6 Q. "And are the passengers listed on this log JE, GM,
7 ET, , Glenn (ph), (ph), (ph), Manny
?"
8 (ph), (ph)
9 A. "Yes."
10 Q. "Based on your knowledge of 's birthday and
11 the date of this flight, would have been 17 on this
12 date?"
13 A. "Yes."
14 Q. "Am I correct that you testified earlier that in
15 addition to sometimes flying on Epstein's private jet, she
16 also travelled on commercial airlines, is that right?"
17 A. "Yes, it is."
18 Q. "Based on your review of these flight logs, does
19 every flight entry list the name of every single passenger;
20 or are there sometime when a passenger is noted female?"
21 A. "There's times where a passenger is just noted
22 female."
23 Q. "I'm going to walk -- talk to you about two
24 examples of that. Turning ahead two slides. Looking at
25 Slide 18, does this reflect a January 3rd, 1995 flight where
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1 the flight log says JE, two females?"
2 A. "Yes, it does."
3 Q. "And do the two entries below, also, just list
4 female next to the initials JE?"
5 A. "Yes, they do."
6 Q. "Turning to the next slide, Slide 19. Is this
7 another example of an entry like that; focusing on the entry
8 on February 12, 1995?"
9 A. "Yes."
10 Q. "Does that entry also say, female?"
11 A. "Yes, it does."
12 Q. "Now, you testified that sometimes flew on
13 commercial airlines and that arrangements for her travel
14 were made for her to fly commercially for these trips, is
15 that right?"
16 A. "Yes."
17 Q. "Have you been able to obtain commercial flight
18 records?"
19 A. "We tried. We were not able to obtain those
20 records."
21 Q. "Why is that?"
22 A. "Airlines do not keep records past a certain
23 year."
24 Q. "Does recall group sexualized massages
25 involving Epstein and Maxwell, in both the New York and
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1 Florida residences, during the time period we've been
2 talking about?"
3 A. "Yes."
4 Q. "You testified earlier about the time that Epstein
5 and Maxwell would spend together and the activities that
6 they were involved in. During this time period did
7 have occasions to talk with Maxwell?"
8 A. "She -- I'm sorry, can you ask the question
9 again?"
10 Q. "During the beginning when she was 14, when she
11 began spending time with Epstein and Maxwell, and through
12 the years, did often have conversations with Maxwell
13 about her life?"
14 A. "Yes."
15 Q. "Did they talk about that often?"
16 A. "They did."
17 Q. "Did Maxwell ask about her family, her
18 classes, and other aspects of her life?"
19 A. "Yes, she did."
20 Q. "You testified earlier, just before she turned 18,
21 moved to New York City, is that right?"
22 A. "Yes."
23 Q. "Did she go to school there in New York City her
24 senior year?"
25 A. "Yes, she did."
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1 Q. "What school did she go to?"
2 A. "She went to the
3 Q. "What is the
4 A. "They cater to individuals who want to pursue
5 careers in the arts."
6 Q. "Have you reviewed records from the
7 VI
8 A. "Yes."
9 Q. "If you could turn to Slide 17. Can you please
10 explain for the grand jury what we're looking at here?"
11 A. "This is an excerpt from 's application to
12 the On it is listed, who is
13 financially responsible for her, and that is
14 Jeffrey Epstein."
15 Q. "From what told you did Maxwell encourage
16 to accept Epstein's financial help?"
17 A. "Yes."
18 Q. "When moved to New York City who was she
19 living with?"
20 A. "She lived with her mother and her brother
21 in -- apartment."
22 Q. "Did Epstein help pay for her rent?"
23 A. "He did."
24 Q. "During that year, her senior year of high school,
25 when she was in New York City, did remain in contact
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1 with Epstein?"
2 A. "Yes."
3 Q• "What was the nature of their contact like during
4 that time period?"
5 A. "During this time he was still sexually abusing
6 her."
7 Q. "Did that continue to occur at his townhouse in
8 Manhattan that year?"
9 A. "Yes, it did."
10 Q. "What happened at the end of her senior year of
11 high school?"
12 A. "She moved to Los Angeles to pursue a career in
13 acting."
14 Q. "Did she get a job as an actress when she turned
15 18?"
16 A. "She did."
17 Q. "Has lived in Los Angeles and worked as an
18 actress on television ever since then?"
19 A. "Yes."
20 Q. "After she moved to Los Angeles, did she continue
21 being in touch with Epstein?"
22 A. "For a short period of time."
23 Q. "Did she ultimately break contact with him?'
24 A. "Yes, she did."
25 Q. "Is currently pursuing a civil lawsuit
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1 against Maxwell and Epstein's estate?"
2 A. "Yes."
3 Q. "Have you talked with about whether, when
4 she was a teenage girl and all of this was happening,
5 whether she told anyone that she was being sexually abused?"
6 A. "Yes. She said she didn't tell anyone. She felt
7 like she couldn't. She -- the -- nothing was talked about
8 outside of that room, so it made it so that she couldn't
9 talk about it. And then she also -- her mother is Middle
10 Eastern, and her mother raised her that women are supposed
11 to do what they're told even if someone is beating you.
12 When she was 13 and her father passed, she, she
13 went to a guidance counselor at school to talk about it, and
14 her mother found out about it and smacked her. She felt
15 like she couldn't talk to anyone about it."
16 Q. "Did 's mother encourage her to accept
17 Epstein's financial assistance?"
18 A. "Yes, she did."
19 Q. "Have you become aware that in 2005 police
20 officers from the Palm Beach Police Department executed
21 search warrant at Epstein's house at the
22 El Brillo Way address in Palm Beach?"
23 A. "Yes."
24 Q. "Have you reviewed some of the materials seized
25 during the search?"
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1 A. "Yes."
2 Q. "Did they find massage tables and sex toys?"
3 A. "Yes, they did."
4 Q. "Did they find any photographs of
5 A. "Yes."
6 Q. "Was one of the photographs signed by
7 A. "Yes, it was."
8 Q. "Did it say,
9
10 A. "Yes."
11 Q. "During your interviews with , did tell
12 you how she felt about Epstein and Maxwell in the 90s when
13 she was a young girl?"
14 A. "She did. She expressed that she felt like they
15 loved her. She felt they were her family; that they
16 supported her, and that they felt like -- she was made to
17 feel that she was needed to be grateful to them."
18 Q. "Okay. Did she tell you that she felt like they
19 were trying to help her?"
20 A. "Yes."
21 Q. "Have you talked with about how she feels
22 about this now?"
23 A. "Yes."
24 Q. "What was 's demeanor like when she described
25 to you what Epstein and Maxwell had done to her?"
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