EFTA00008744

2
3 UNITED STATES GRAND JURY
4 SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
5 -x
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
6
-V- : January 19, 2021 Additional
7
GHISLAINE MAXWELL
8 (2018R01618)
x
9
10 United States Courthouse
Foley Square
11 New York, New York
12 March 29, 2021
10:05 a.m.
13
14 APPEARANCE S:
15
States Attorney
16
17 d States Attorney
18
19
20
21
22
23
M inury Reporter
24
25
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1 (Colloquy Precedes)
2 (Witness Enters Room)
3 (Time Noted: 10:14 a.m.)
4 called as a witness, having been duly sworn by
5 the Foreperson of the Grand Jury, was examined and
6 testified as follows:
7 BY MS.
8 Q. Good morning.
9 A. Good morning.
10 Q. Would you please state your name for the record?
11 A. Detective
12 Q. Detective where do you work?
13 A. New York City Police Department.
14 Q. I'm going to ask you to please keep your voice up,
15 and speak as slowly as you can.
16 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER.
17 BY MS.
18 Q. And you can pull the microphone toward you so that
19 everyone in this big room can hear you. Thank you. Where
20 do you work?
21 A. New York City Police Department.
22 Q. What is your title there?
23 A. Detective.
24 Q. How long have you been with the NYPD?
25 A. About 15 years.
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1 Q. Are you currently part of a federal task force?
A. Yes.
3 Q. What task force?
4 A. The Child Exploitation and Human Trafficking Task
5 Force with the FBI.
6 Q. What is your title on the task force?
7 A. Task force officer.
8 Q. How long have you been a task force officer with
9 the FBI?
10 A. Since about 2017.
11 Q. Generally, what are your duties and
12 responsibilities on the task force?
13 A. We address cases of child sex-trafficking, adult
14 sex-trafficking, child pornography, and child enticement.
15 Q. Over the last, approximately, three years have you
16 been involved in an investigation into Jeffrey Epstein and
17 his associates, including an individual named
18 Ghislaine Maxwell?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. During your investigation have you spoken with
21 other people, including other law enforcement officers?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q• Have you reviewed reports and documents prepared
24 by others, and transcripts of testimony in other court and
25 grand jury proceedings?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Will your testimony today be based in part on
3 those conversations and documents that you have reviewed?
4 A. Yes.
5 MS. Ladies and gentlemen, some of the
6 testimony you are going to hear from Detective will
7 include hearsay. That means he is not going to testify only
8 from his own personal observations, he will also be
9 testifying about what other people have told him and what he
10 has read in documents.
11 Hearsay evidence, as you know, is admissible and
12 proper in these proceedings, and you are permitted to rely
13 on it in determining whether there is probable cause to
14 indict the defendant, but if you want to hear testimony from
15 other witnesses, or see particular documents, please let me
16 know, and I will make my best efforts to bring those before
17 you.
18 BY MS.
19 Q. Detective over the course of your
20 investigation has another member of the FBI task force
21 you're a part of testified before a different grand jury
22 about the facts of this case?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. I'd like to ask you to please pick up what should
25 be in front of you and marked as Grand Jury Exhibit 3. Do
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1 you recognize that?
9 A. Yes.
3 Q. Is this document a fair and accurate transcript of
4 testimony given by FBI Special Agent before a
5 different grand jury, on June 29, 2020?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. I'd like to read back a portion of this
8 transcript. We will start at Page 2, Line 18. I will read
9 the questions, you read the answers.
10 Q. "Where do you currently work?"
11 A. "The Federal Bureau of Investigation."
12 Q. "What is your title?"
13 A. "Special agent."
14 Q. "How long have you worked as a special agent?"
15 A. "About three years now."
16 Q. "Where are you currently assigned?"
17 A. "I work on the Violent Crimes Against Children's
18 Squad."
19 Q. "What are your duties and responsibilities as -
20 special agent on that squad?"
21 A. "We investigate crimes that have to do with child
22 sexual abuse material, sextortion, exploitation, and
23 enticement of minors, sex-trafficking."
24 MS. You can stop there. I'll now jump to
25 Page 4, line 13.
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1 BY MS.
2 Q. "Have you participated in an investigation of
3 Ghislaine Maxwell?"
4 A. "Yes, I have."
5 Q. "Have you spoken to other people, including other
6 law enforcement officers about this investigation?"
7 A. "Yes."
8 Q. "Have you reviewed reports and documents prepared
9 by others regarding this case?"
10 A. "Yes."
11 Q. "Is your testimony today based in part on those
12 conversations with other law enforcement officers and
13 documents that you have reviewed?"
14 A. "Yes."
15 MS. Stepping out of the read back. At
16 this point the AUSA provided the same hearsay instruction to
17 the grand jury, at that time, as I just provided to you all.
18 So that instruction applies with respect to
19 testimony the same way it applies to
20 Detective testimony.
21 We can now go down to Page 5, line 17.
22 BY MS.
23 Q. we've placed on the desk in
24 front of you a PowerPoint that is Grand Jury Exhibit 2 which
25 we're entering into the record. Do you recognize this?"
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1 A. "Yes."
2 Q. "What is it?"
3 A. "It's a PowerPoint presentation to assist in
4 testifying today."
5 Q. "Did you participate in preparing this Exhibit in
6 connection with your testimony today?"
7 A. "Yes, I did."
8 Q. "If you could please turn to the first slide. Who
9 are the individuals depicted in these photographs?"
10 A. "The picture on the left is Ghislaine Maxwell, and
11 the picture on the right is Jeffrey Epstein with
12 Ghislaine Maxwell."
13 Q. "Based on your participation in this investigation
14 and your review of public source materials, have Maxwell and
15 Epstein been photographed together many times over the
16 years?"
17 A. "Yes."
18 Q. "Based on your participation in this investigation
19 and your review of public materials, where is Maxwell from?"
20 A. "Maxwell was born in France, she grew up in United
21 Kingdom, was educated in Oxford and is from a wealthy
22 family."
23 Q. "Is she a citizen of France, the United Kingdom,
24 and the United States?"
25 A. "Yes."
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1 Q. "How old is she currently?"
2 A. "Fifty-eight."
3 Q. "Has the FBI investigated Maxwell and Epstein':
4 conduct with minors during the 1990s?"
5 A. "Yes."
6 Q. "Generally speaking, what have you learned about
7 the relationship between Maxwell and Epstein during the
8 1990s?"
9 A. "Epstein and Maxwell had a romantic relationship,
10 and she also worked for him; managing his homes, hiring and
11 firing individuals."
12 Q. "During that time period, was she one of his
13 closest associates?"
14 A. "Yes."
15 Q. "During the course of this investigation have you
16 learned where Epstein maintained properties in the 1990s?"
17 A. "Yes."
18 Q. "Where did he maintain properties?"
19 A. "New York, Palm Beach, and New Mexico."
20 Q. "Turning to the next slide, did he maintain an
21 address in Manhattan located at 9 East 71st Street?"
22 A. "Yes."
23 Q. "Does this slide fairly and accurately depict that
24 residence?"
25 A. "Yes."
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1 4• "Can you please describe that property for the
2 grand jury?"
3 A. "It's a seven-story home. It's located near
4 Central Park. It's reportedly the largest residence in
5 Manhattan."
6 Q. "Based on your participation in this
7 investigation, did that house include a room that was used
8 as a massage room?"
9 A. "Yes, it did."
10 Q. "All right. We'll talk more about that later but
11 for now, moving on to the other properties. Did he maintain
12 an address in Palm Beach, Florida, located at
13 358 El Brillo Way?"
14 A. "Yes."
15 Q. "Turning to the next slide. Does this slide
16 fairly and accurately depict the residence?"
17 A. "Yes, it does."
18 Q. "Could you please describe that property for the
19 grand jury?"
20 A. "It's a water-front estate. It has an in-ground
21 pool and a detached dwelling, or pool house, on the property
22 as well."
23 Q. "Aside -- and from your participation in this
24 investigation and your review of other materials, did that
25 house include a room that was used as a massage room?"
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1 A. "Yes."
2 Q. "Turning to the next property. Did Epstein also
3 own a ranch in New Mexico?"
4 A. "Yes, he did."
5 Q. "And turning to the next slide, was that a
6 property located at 49 Zorro Ranch Road in Stanley,
7 New Mexico?"
8 A. "Yes."
9 4. "Looking at the photograph on this slide does this
10 accurately depict that property?"
11 A. "Yes, it does."
12 Q. "And we've been talking about the properties that
13 Epstein owned during this time period. Did he also own a
14 private jet?"
15 A. "Yes."
16 4• "Is it fair to say that he was a multi-millionaire
17 during this time period?
18 A. "Yes."
19 Q. "During the 1990s did Epstein have an employee,
20 ■ who ran his house in Palm Beach?"
21 A. "Yes, he did."
22 Q. "What was his job?"
23 A. "His job was making sure that everything in the
24 house ran smoothly. He referred -- he described that
25 Epstein liked to have his house run like a five-star hotel;
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1 that everything had to be in its proper place. So he was
2 responsible for managing that."
3 Q. "Have you interviewed
4 A. "Yes."
5 Q. "How many times?"
6 A. "Twice."
7 Q. "And is the information you're about to provide
8 based on your interviews with
9 A. "Yes."
10 Q. "Did begin working for Epstein in the early
11 1990s?"
12 A. "Yes, he did."
13 Q. "At the time came to work for Epstein in
14 Palm Beach, was Epstein dating Ghislaine Maxwell at that
15 point?"
16 A. "Not at that time."
17 4• "Was it a few years before Epstein began dating
18 Maxwell after started working there?"
19 A. "Yes."
20 MS. I'm going to step out of the read
21 back. It sounds like the grand jurors are having difficulty
22 hearing. Are you having difficulty hearing me, the witness,
23 or both?
24 GRAND JURORS. The witness.
25 MS. So Detective I'm going to ask
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1 you to please keep your voice up. Try to shout into the
2 microphone. Can you pull the microphone toward you? Lift
3 it and pull it all the way up to you? Thank you. We left
4 off reading at Page 10, line 12.
5 BY MS.
6 Q. "From what told you, how did
7 work change once Maxwell arrived on the scene?"
8 A. ''I'll' described Epstein as being of more
9 pleasant to work with prior to Maxwell coming into the
10 picture. Once she came into the picture, he said things
11 became more secretive. He wasn't allowed to be in the room
12 with guests, wasn't allowed to talk with them, associate
13 with them; it became a different environment."
14 MS. Detective I'm going to ask you
15 to take the microphone and try to put it right under where
16 your mouth would be when you're reading because as you're
17 looking down, you're moving your mouth away from the
18 microphone. Thank you. Picking back up at Page 10,
19 line 20.
20 BY MS.
21 Q. "You talked about some of the rules that were
22 placed, changing. Were there any rule changes about eye
23 contact once Maxwell began staying at the Palm Beach house?"
24 A. "Yes. wasn't allowed to make eye contact
25 with Epstein and others."
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1 MS. We're going to jump now to Page 11,
2 Line 6.
3 BY MS.
4 Q. "Shifting gears. I want to talk to you about
5 someone else that you've interviewed during this
6 investigation. During the course of this investigation,
7 have you participated in interviews with an individual named
8
9 A. "Yes."
10 Q. "So for these purposes, I'm just going to refer t
11 her as . Is that okay?"
12 A. "Yes."
13 Q. "How many times have you interviewed ?"
14 A. "Approximately five times."
15 Q. "If you could please just page through the next
16 two slides in front of you? Are these photographs of
17 II
18 A. "Yes."
19 Q. "Is it your understanding that these photographs
20 depict from approximately ages 13 to approximately
21 17?"
22 A. "Yes, it does."
23 4• "Okay. Let's take a look at some of those
24 photographs. I'm going to publish the next slide.
25 's date of birth
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1 A. "Yes."
2 Q. "Are these two photographs of ?"
3 A. "Yes, they are."
4 Q. "If you could turn to the second slide of
5 photographs, are these also photographs of ?It
6 A. "Yes."
7 Q. "Based on your participation in this investigation
8 and your interviews with , where was she living when
9 she was approximately 14 years old?"
10 A. "She was living in Palm Beach, Florida."
11 Q. "Who was she living with when she was 14?"
12 A. "Her mother and her siblings."
13 Q. "What was her whole life like at that time?"
14 A. "At that time her father had passed away the year
15 prior, so the family was struggling financially and having
16 some difficulties."
17 Q. "What did 's father do before he passed away?
18 What was his profession?"
19 A. "He was involved in
20
.'
21 Q. "Was involved in ?"
22 A. "Yes, she was."
23 Q. "Were her siblings?"
24 A. "Yes."
25 Q. "What kinds of were they involved in?"
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1 A. "Singing. She was a singer."
2 Q. "Like, what kind of singer?"
3 A. "Opera."
4 Q. "In the summer of 1994, how old was
5 A. "She was 13 going on 14."
6 Q. "You testified earlier that her birthday was in
7 . So did she turn 14 in
8 A. "Yes."
9 Q. "What did she do that summer?"
10 A. "She attended an arts camp at Interlochen Center
11 for the Arts."
12 Q. "And is Interlochen summer arts program located in
13 Michigan?"
14 A. "Yes."
15 Q. "Did meet Jeffrey Epstein and
16 Ghislaine Maxwell that summer?"
17 A. "Yes, she did."
18 Q. "Did she meet them at summer camp?"
19 A. "Yes."
20 Q. "What did she tell you about that?"
21 A. "She said that she was sitting at a picnic table
22 with friends when Epstein and Maxwell walked by. They
23 stopped to talk to her, engaged her in conversation, asked
24 her if she liked her classes; her teachers. During that
25 conversation she found out that she was also from Palm Beach
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1 and that he said he gives scholarships to students."
2 Q. "How did they leave the conversation? Was there
3 any contact information exchanged?"
4 A. "They asked for 's phone number."
5 Q. "As part of your investigation have you attempted
6 to gather records to corroborate that , Maxwell, and
7 Epstein were all at that summer camp that summer?"
8 A. "Yes."
9 Q. "If you could turn to the next slide, please.
10 Have you obtained records from Interlochen for the summer of
11 1994?"
12 A. "Yes."
13 Q. "And what are we looking at on this slide?"
14 A. "This shows who -- some of the individuals that
15 were there, were present for that camp in '94. On here is
16 If
17 Q. "And have you investigated whether Maxwell and
18 Epstein were also at Interlochen that summer of 1994 as
19 described?"
20 A. "Yes."
21 Q. "Based on your review of records from Interlochen,
22 what is your understanding of Epstein's relationship with
23 Interlochen?"
24 A. "My understanding was that he was a donor to the
25 school."
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1 Q. "Did he make any substantial donations?"
2 A. "He did."
3 Q. "Did he donate a lodge to the camp in the summer
4 of 1994?"
5 A. "Yes, he did."
6 Q. "Did he have a long-standing relationship as a
7 donor to Interlochen?"
8 A. "Yes."
9 Q. "Turning to the next slide. Is this an excerpt of
10 a letter from Interlochen to Epstein?"
11 A. "Yes, it is."
12 Q. "And does this letter thank Epstein for donating a
13 scholarship lodge?"
14 A. "Yes."
15 Q. "Does it invite Epstein to visit in August of
16 1994?"
17 A. "Yes."
18 Q. "In 1994 did Epstein have a private jet?"
19 A. "Yes, he did."
20 Q. "Have you obtained the flight logs for that -iet?"
21 A. "Yes."
22 Q. "Do those logs include passenger lists and the
23 airport code for the airports the plane flew into and out
24 of?"
25 A. "Yes."
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1 Q. "Turning to the next slide. Is this a page of the
2 flight logs that you reviewed?"
3 A. "Yes."
4 Q. "And on this excerpt of the flight logs, where the
5 red arrow is, is that a log entry showing an August 18, 1994
6 flight to an airport with the airport code TBC?"
7 A. "Yes."
8 Q. "Is TBC the airport code for Cherry Capitol
9 Airport in Traverse City, Michigan?"
10 A. "Yes, it is."
11 Q. "About how far is that airport from Interlochen by
12 car?"
13 A. "About 25 minutes, give or take."
14 Q. "And who were the listed passengers on this
15 flight?"
16 A. "Jeffrey Epstein, (ph), and
17 (ph)."
18 Q. "Turning to the next slide. Is it the same
19 excerpt just with a different arrow?"
20 A. "Yes."
21 Q. "Okay. So a few lines down is there a flight out
22 of Traverse City just two days later, on August 20, 1994?"
23 A. "Yes."
24 Q. "And do the passengers listed in the flight out of
25 Traverse City include the initials GM?"
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1 A. "Yes, they do."
2 Q. "Are those Ghislaine Maxwell's initials?"
3 A. "Yes."
4 Q. "Have you obtained any records from Interlochen to
5 indicate that Maxwell was at Interlochen in 1994?"
6 A. "Yes."
7 Q. "If we could turn to the next slide. Can you
8 please explain for the grand jury what we're looking at on
9 this slide?"
10 A. "This was a letter from Interlochen
11 explaining -- addressed to Maxwell -- telling her that they
12 had found an envelope in the lodge that they had been
13 staying."
14 Q. "All right. We were talking a few minutes ago
15 about how described meeting Maxwell and Epstein at
16 summer camp and you testified that she provided them with
17 her phone number. Did explain to you whether or not
18 she had any contact with Epstein or Maxwell after she
19 returned home to Palm Beach?"
20 A. "Yes."
21 Q. "When was the next time that happened?"
22 A. "Shortly thereafter."
23 Q. "And how did that occur?"
24 A. "She was invited to his house, so her and her
25 mother went to Epstein's house to visit."
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1 Q. "What did tell you about that visit to
2 Epstein's house with her mother?"
3 A. "She said it was -- wait, can you rephrase that?"
4 Q. "Of course. Did go to the house by
5 herself or with her mother?"
6 A. "With her mother."
7 Q. "Okay. When they went to the house what did they
8 do there?"
9 A. "They had tea."
10 Q. "Who was there when they had tea at the house?"
11 A. "Epstein and Maxwell."
12 Q. "What did they discuss as they had tea?"
13 A. "They just talked about her life and, you know,
14 what she wanted to do."
15 Q. "Did Epstein make any offers?"
16 A. "He said that he gives scholarships; he likes to
17 mentor people."
18 Q. "How did 's mother react when Epstein said
19 this?"
20 A. "She was happy for her daughter and often times
21 referred to Epstein as 's godfather."
22 Q. "After that occasion when they went over to the
23 house, thereafter, did subsequently begin regularly
24 spending time with Maxwell and Epstein at Epstein's house in
25 Palm Beach?"
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