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1 
Q. 
Did you have an understanding that that's what 
2 
Jeffrey liked, girls that were around that age, 14 to 17 
3 
years old? 
4 
MR. CRITTON: Form. 
THE WITNESS: I don't understand your 
6 
question. 
7 
BY MR. 
8 
Q. 
Well, he told you that 
was too old, 
9 
right? 
10 
A. 
Yes. 
11 
Q. 
Why were you bringing girls, all of them 
12 
except for 
, 14 to 17? 
13 
MS. 
: Object, to the extent that 
14 
you're asking her to speculate as to what 
15 
Mr. Epstein was thinking and feeling. 
16 
MR. 
: Don't want that. 
17 
BY MR. 
18 
Q. 
I want what you're thinking. 
19 
MS. 
: If she has specific --
20 
BY MR. 
21 
Q. 
I want what you were thinking. 
22 
Why did you only bring girls, except for 
23 
that were 14 to 17? 
24 
A. 
Because those are girls that I knew that 
25 
went to school with. It was easy access. 
(561) 832-7500 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
(561) 832-7506 
Electronically signed by Sandra Townsend (401477476-2895) 
Electronically signed by Sandra Townsend (401477476-2895) 
1f88f113-5663-4dad-94e7-90ftb7174075 
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Page 82 
Q. 
Okay. Did Jeffrey tell you that he liked any 
2 
of them that you brought over in particular? 
3 
A. 
Yes. 
4 
Q. 
Which one? 
5 
A. 
6 
Q. 
Anyone else? 
7 
A. 
8 
Q. 
Anyone else? 
9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
and 
15 
16 
17 
18 
Okay? 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
A. 
Not that I can remember. 
Q. 
Did he tell you why he liked 
the most? 
A. 
No. 
Q. 
Did he tell you what he did with 
A. 
No. 
Q. 
All right. We're going to change the tape, so 
we're going to take a five-minute break real quick. 
VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the video record. 
This is the end of tape one. The time is 
12:35 p.m. 
(Brief recess.) 
VIDEOGRAPHER: We're back on the video record. 
This is the beginning of tape two. The time is 
12:45 p.m. 
(5611 832-7500 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
(561) 832-7506 
Electronically signed by Sandra Townsend (401.377476.2895) 
Electronically signed by Sandra Townsend (401477-676-2895) 
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Page 83 
1 
BY MR. 
2 
Q. 
I want to go back, just a couple of things I 
3 
wanted to cover about that first time before we move on. 
4 
At some point you spoke to police about 
5 
Jeffrey Epstein, correct? 
6 
A. 
Yes. 
7 
Q. 
You gave, I believe, a couple of interviews 
8 
actually to the police officers about what had happened? 
9 
A. 
A couple? 
10 
Q. 
Did you talk to them -- well, let me ask you. 
11 
How many times did you talk to police in total, if you 
12 
remember? 
13 
A. 
One time to the police. 
14 
Q. 
Did they call you on the phone and talk to you 
15 
that time? 
16 
A. 
No. 
17 
Q. 
Did they talk to you in person? 
18 
A. 
Yes. 
19 
Q. 
Brought you down to the police department: 
20 
A. 
Yes. 
21 
Q. 
Was anyone with you when you went? 
22 
A. 
No. 
23 
Q. 
One police officer was there? 
24 
A. 
Two. 
25 
Q. 
Do you remember who they were? 
(561) 832-7500 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
(561) 832-7506 
Electronically signed by Sandra Townsend (401-377476-2895) 
Electronically signed by Sandra Townsend (401-377476-2895) 
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Page 84 
A. 
No. 
2 
Q. 
Are you also aware that at some point you had 
3 
phone calls with II that had been recorded? 
4 
A. 
At some point, yes. 
5 
Q. 
Somebody told you about those? 
6 
A. 
Yes. 
7 
Q. 
Who told you about those? 
8 
MS. 
: And, again, if you learned this 
9 
through myself, 
or any other attorney that's 
10 
represented the same to you, do not disclose that. 
11 
You are not 
12 
MR. 
: Absolutely. 
13 
MS. 
: -- to discuss anything that 
14 
you've learned through a conversation with one of 
15 
your attorneys. 
16 
BY MR. 
17 
Q. 
I'll clarify. Did you learn from a source 
18 
other than your attorneys that you had had conversations 
19 
with 
over the phone that had been recorded? 
20 
A. 
No. 
21 
Q. 
During the conversations with the police, do 
22 
you know if those were recorded? 
23 
A. 
Yes. 
24 
Q. 
Okay. Would you agree with me that your 
25 
memory back then when the police first interviewed you 
(561) 832-7500 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
(561) 832-7506 
Electronically signed by Sandra Townsend (401.377-676.2895) 
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Page 85 
1 
might have been a little bit fresher than it is today, 
2 
some, we're talking three, four years later? 
3 
A. 
Yes. 
4 
Q. 
In looking through the police records, I just 
5 
wanted to clarify a couple things. And if you remember 
6 
them different, you tell me. 
7 
One of the things you mentioned to me was that 
8 
during the incident he may have touched you in the front 
9 
and you stopped him? 
10 
A. 
Yes. 
11 
Q. 
All right. In the police records, it mentions 
12 
that Epstein grabbed your buttocks and you felt 
13 
uncomfortable. 
14 
MR. CRITTON: I'm sorry. 
15 
BY MR. 
16 
Q. 
As you sit here today, do you recall whether 
17 
he tried to touch you in the front or in the rear? 
18 
MS. 
: I object to you using this 
19 
record at all. I'm not sure if you're looking at a 
20 
statement or if you're just looking at a probable 
21 
cause affidavit and representing that a police 
22 
officer said this or that. 
23 
If you have a particular statement that she's 
24 
given, we'd like to see that and let her review it . 
25 
Otherwise, this isn't proper impeachment. 
(561) 832-7500 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
(561) 832-7506 
Electronically signed by Sandra Townsend (401.377.676.2895) 
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Page 86 
1 
BY MR. 
2 
Q. 
All I'm asking is, is, I just want to know if 
3 
you remember specifically whether he tried to touch you 
4 
in the front or it may have been in the back in the 
5 
buttocks. 
6 
A. 
I know for a fact that he tried to touch me in 
7 
the front. As far as the buttocks, it's possible. That 
8 
was many years ago. I can't recall. 
9 
Q. 
Okay. One of the police officers said that 
10 
you told him that Epstein expressed, the younger the 
11 
better, when it came to girls being brought to the 
12 
house. 
13 
MS. 
: And, again, I'm going to object 
14 
and ask you to clarify. Are you reading from a 
15 
deposition? Have you learned specifically from a 
16 
police officer himself? Do you have a statement 
17 
that 
has given that you're representing to 
18 
her? Because right now you're just telling her 
19 
what a police officer has said. 
20 
MR. 
: Okay. 
21 
MS. 
: And I think she's entitled to 
22 
know what exactly you're trying to do, if this is 
23 
impeachment. What are you asking her? 
24 
MR. CRITTON: Let me just note my objection, 
25 
too. It's -- a police statement is not necessarily 
(561) 832-7500 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
(561) 832-7506 
Electronically signed by Sandra Townsend (401.377-676.2895) 
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1 f88f113-5663-4dad-S4e7-90flb7174075 
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Page 8, 
1 
accurate or inaccurate. But my objection is to 
2 
form because I think it's inaccurate. 
3 
MR. 
: Did you have a question at the 
4 
end of your statement? 
5 
MR. 
: I was waiting for all the 
6 
objections because there wasn't one. 
7 
BY MR. 
8 
Q. 
All right. Let me ask the question now. 
9 
A. 
Okay. 
10 
Q. 
Do you recall Mr. Epstein, Jeffrey, ever 
11 
saying to you with respect to girls being brought to the 
12 
house, the younger the better? 
13 
MR. CRITTON: Form. 
14 
THE WITNESS: Yes. 
15 
BY MR. 
16 
Q. 
When did he say that? 
17 
A. 
I don't know. I can't recall. 
18 
Q. 
Was it after that first time? 
19 
A. 
I don't know. 
20 
Q. 
What did you take that to mean, the younger 
21 
the better? 
22 
A. 
Not old. 
23 
Q. 
And old being obviously 
24 
A. 
25 
Q. 
Who was 23? 
(561) 832-7500 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
(561) 832-7506 
Electronically signed by Sandra Townsend (401477476-2895) 
Electronically signed by Sandra Townsend (401477476-2895) 
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Page 88 
A. 
Yes. 
2 
Q. 
Okay. The first time you were there, you 
3 
mentioned you got paid 200. 
4 
Do you know if
 or Tony got paid? 
5 
A. 
Yes. 
6 
Q. 
How do you know that? 
7 
A. 
One of which had told me,III had told me. 
8 
don't know how much. 
9 
Q. 
But you know that • 
got paid for taking you 
10 
there? 
11 
A. 
That's correct. 
12 
Q. 
Got you. Which would have been similar to the 
13 
deal that he explained to you, if you bring someone, 
14 
I'll give you 200 bucks? 
15 
A. 
Yes. 
16 
Q. 
Okay. The first girl you brought, you 
17 
mentioned that you didn't tell her that she would have 
18 
to get naked in any way. 
19 
Did you tell any of the subsequent girls that. 
20 
you brought that they might have to undress? 
21 
A. 
I don't remember. 
22 
Q. 
Okay. Very important, and I want to be 
23 
specific about this. You said you brought about 12 
24 
girls, approximately, to Jeffrey's home for these 
25 
massages, all of which were under the age of 18 except 
(561) 832-7500 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
(561) 832-7506 
Electron tally signed by Sandra Townsend (401.377-676.2895) 
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Page 89 
for 
2 
As you sit here today, can you recall telling 
3 
any of them that they would have to get naked at any 
4 
point during the massage? 
5 
A. 
I really do not remember. 
6 
Q. 
Would you agree with me then at the very least 
7 
that none of these girls that you brought would have 
8 
known that they would have to get naked before they 
9 
showed up at the house? 
10 
A. 
I don't understand your question. 
11 
Q. 
If you didn't tell them or you don't remember 
12 
telling them that they would have to get naked at any 
13 
point, would these girls have been able to hear it from 
14 
anyone else, if you know? 
15 
A. 
I don't know. 
16 
MR. CRITTON: Form. 
17 
BY MR. 
18 
Q. 
Do you know if anyone else had approached any 
19 
of the same girls that you brought to the home to 
20 
discuss what was going to happen there? 
21 
A. 
I don't know. 
22 
Q. 
Was anyone with you, other than the girl that 
23 
you would bring, on the times that you brought these 
24 
girls to Epstein's home? 
25 
A. 
Yes. 
(561) 832-7500 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
(561) 832-7506 
Electronically signed by Sandra Townsend (401.377-676.2895) 
Electronically signed by Sandra Townsend (401.377-676.2895) 
1 f88f113-5663-4dad-94.7-90flb7174075 
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Page 
Q. 
Who? 
2 
A. 
One occasion 
3 
Q. 
What's her last name? 
4 
A. 
Coincidentally, I. 
S 
Q. 
And who was..? Was she also a friend about. 
8 
your age? 
9 
A. 
She was a friend. I don't know her age. 
10 
Q. 
Was she in high school with you? 
11 
A. 
I don't know. 
12 
Q. 
How was it that she came to be with you on one 
13 
occasion when you brought a girl? 
14 
A. 
We were friends. There's a lot of speculation 
15 
about her age. She said she went to 
but I 
16 
don't -- never saw her. We were just friends. We met 
17 
out and about. 
18 
Q. 
Okay. How did she end up with you that day 
19 
though? 
20 
A. 
I called her to ask her if she wanted to tag 
21 
along. 
22 
Q. 
And who were you bringing that particular day? 
23 
A. 
24 
Q. 
So on that particular day, it was you, II and 
25 
that went? 
(561) 832-7500 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
(561) 832-7506 
Electronically signed by Sandra Townsend (401.377-676.2895) 
Electronically signed by Sandra Townsend (401.377-676.2895) 
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Page 
A. 
Yes. 
2 
Q. 
And
 was going to be the one giving the 
3 
massage at that point? 
4 
A. 
That's correct. 
5 
Q. 
How many times did you go with II? 
6 
A. 
One time. 
7 
Q. 
Do you know whether she went other times 
8 
without you? 
9 
A. 
I do not. 
10 
Q. 
You don't know for sure one way or the other? 
11 
A. 
I do not know for sure one way or the other. 
12 
Q. 
Other than that first time that you went, were 
13 
there any other times that you actually gave Jeffrey a 
14 
massage? 
15 
A. 
One time. 
16 
Q. 
How long after that first time was that? 
17 
A. 
I only gave one massage. I don't think I 
18 
understand -- I don't think I understand your question. 
19 
Q. 
Okay. And I think you clarified it. 
20 
You mentioned that you went that first time 
21 
and gave him a massage. Okay? 
22 
A. 
(Nods head.) 
23 
Q. 
Other than that one time, did you ever again 
24 
give him a massage? 
25 
A. 
No. 
(561) 832-7500 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
(561) 832-7506 
Electronically signed by Sandra Townsend (401.377-676.2895) 
Electronically signed by Sandra Townsend (401.377-676.2895) 
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Page 92 
Q. 
So all the other times that you went back to 
2 
the home, you were just bringing other girls? 
3 
A. 
Yes. 
4 
Q. 
Got you. I had asked you whether the reason 
5 
you were bringing these girls was the money. You 
6 
remember that question? 
7 
A. 
Yes, I do. 
8 
Q. 
If not the maybe only reason you were doing 
9 
it, would you agree with me that the money you were 
10 
getting paid was at least one of the reasons why you 
11 
were bringing girls there? 
12 
MR. CRITTON: Form. 
13 
THE WITNESS: Yes. 
14 
BY MR. 
15 
Q. 
Can you think of any other reason, other than 
16 
the money, that you would have been bringing girls there 
17 
to his house? 
18 
A. 
Being rebellious. 
19 
Q. 
Were you doing anything else in your life that 
20 
was rebellious, other than this, at this point? 
21 
MS. 
: Objection. And I'm going to 
22 
instruct her not to answer that question, based on 
23 
the same objections as earlier. 
24 
BY MR. 
25 
Q. 
Okay. When you went to Jeffrey's home, did 
(561) 832-7500 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
(561) 832-7506 
Electronically signed by Sandra Townsend (401.377-676.2895) 
Electronically signed by Sandra Townsend (401.377-676.2895) 
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Page 93 
1 
you ever meet up with the chef in the kitchen at any 
2 
point? 
3 
A. 
The chef was there. 
4 
Q. 
Okay. Maybe not every time or was it every 
5 
time that the chef was there? 
6 
A. 
Not every time. 
7 
Q. 
Describe the chef for me. Male or female? 
8 
A. 
Male. 
9 
Q. 
Race? White? Ethnic? Anything? 
10 
A. 
I can't remember. 
11 
Q. 
Okay. Approximate age? 
12 
A. 
Can't remember. 
13 
Q. 
Did you ever have any conversations with the 
14 
chef? 
15 
A. 
I can't remember. 
16 
Q. 
Did you ever have any conversations with the 
17 
house staff at all, either security or anyone in the 
18 
house, other than 
19 
A. 
No, not that I can remember at all. 
20 
Q. 
All right. While you don't remember the first 
21 
girl that you brought, do you remember the next one 
22 
after that? 
23 
A. 
No. 
24 
Q. 
Do you remember any of the order in which you 
25 
brought these girls? 
(561) 832-7500 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
(561) 832-7506 
Electronically signed by Sandra Townsend (401.377-676.2895) 
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Page 
A. 
Yes. 
2 
Q. 
Tell me about that. 
3 
A. 
I only remember the last one being. 
4 
Q. 
That was the last one? 
5 
A. 
The last one. 
6 
Q. 
Why was she the last? 
7 
A. 
Because -- because I was 18. I had just 
8 
turned 18. And I didn't even really want to bring her 
9 
but she had kind of asked me to, so I did it. 
10 
And then after that, there were a lot of 
11 
people warning me about her, that she was trying to set 
12 
me up. So after that I stopped. 
13 
Q. 
Okay. But II was the last one you brought? 
14 
A. 
Yes. 
15 
Q. 
Did you stop bringing girls to the house 
16 
because the police started the investigation right after 
17 
the. incident? 
18 
A. 
No. 
19 
Q. 
Do you think that you would have stopped 
20 
bringing girls to the house, had the police not started 
21 
their investigation? 
22 
MR. CRITTON: Form. Speculation. 
23 
THE WITNESS: I don't know. 
24 
BY MR. 
25 
Q. 
After you brought.., obviously there was a 
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9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
U 
U 
Page 
1 
big investigation that started, correct? 
2 
A. 
Yes. 
3 
Q. 
And you were caught up in that investigation? 
4 
A. 
Yes. 
S 
Q. 
Obviously, because you were called down to the 
6 
police department to give an interview, right? 
7 
A. 
Yes. 
8 
Q. 
How long after you brought I. did you first 
have a conversation with police? 
A. 
Definitely months later. 
Q. 
Okay. 
A. 
That's all I know. 
Q. 
Okay. Do you still talk to I. at all? 
A. 
No. 
Q. 
Were you ever friendly with her? 
A. 
Yes. 
Q. 
How did that come about; in other words, how 
did you first become friends with I.? 
A. 
23 
Q. 
Okay. How old were you when you met her, 17 
24 
at that point? 18? 
25 
A. 
About 17, turning 18. 
(561) 832-7500 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
(561) 832-7506 
Electronically signed by Sandra Townsend (401477476-2895) 
Electronically signed by Sandra Townsend (401477476-2895) 
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Page 96 
Q. 
All right. And you would have been a senior? 
2 
A. 
That's correct. 
3 
Q. 
And she was -- what? -- a sophomore? 
4 
A. 
No. 
5 
Q. 
Junior? Younger? What grade was she in? 
6 
A. 
At that time, I didn't know. 
7 
Q. 
She's 14. So did you come to learn what grade 
8 
she was in later? 
9 
A. 
I came to know what age she was after the 
fact. 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
id you first meet her? 
19 
A. 
I.? 
20 
Q. 
Yeah. 
21 
A. 
Through my --
22 
Q. 
I mean, was it at a party or did 
bring 
23 
her over to the house? 
24 
A. 
brought her to the house. That's it. 
25 
Just, it was his girlfriend, just brought her around. 
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PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
(561) 832-7506 
Electronically signed by Sandra Townsend (401.377-676.2895) 
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Page 
Q. 
How old was 
at the time? 
2 
A. 
I don't remember. 
3 
Q. 
Younger than you? 
4 
A. 
Yes. 
5 
Q. 
How is it that she learned about Jeffrey? 
6 
MR. CRITTON: Form. 
7 
BY MR. 
8 
Q. 
If you know. 
9 
A. 
I can't remember. 
10 
Q. 
Did you tell her? 
11 
A. 
Yes. 
12 
Q. 
Okay. Did she learn about Jeffrey for the 
13 
first time, if you know, from you? 
14 
A. 
I don't know. 
15 
Q. 
Obviously you're aware that I. ultimately 
16 
reported what had happened to the police? 
17 
A. 
Yes. 
18 
MR. CRITTON: Form to the last question. 
19 
BY MR. 
20 
Q. 
I'm assuming it made you a little upset. 
21 
Would you agree with that? 
22 
A. 
Yes. 
23 
Q. 
And do you sit here today thinking that if it. 
24 
had not been for I. maybe all this wouldn't have 
25 
happened? 
(561) 832-7500 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
(561) 832-7506 
Electronically signed by Sandra Townsend (401.377-676.2895) 
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Page 98 
MR. CRITTON: Form. 
2 
THE WITNESS: I don't know. 
3 
BY MR. 
4 
Q. 
Do you blame her for all of this? 
5 
A. 
No. 
6 
Q. 
At all? 
7 
A. 
No. 
8 
(Brief interruption.) 
9 
BY MR. 
10 
Q. 
Are you upset with I. for having started all 
11 
this --
12 
A. 
Not at all. 
13 
Q. 
even in the least bit? 
14 
A. 
No. 
15 
Q. 
No? 
16 
A. 
No. 
17 
Q. 
Are you upset with anyone that all this 
18 
happened; in other words, this being the whole criminal 
19 
investigation and all these lawsuits and anything like 
20 
that, are you upset with anyone over all this? 
21 
MR. CRITTON: Form. 
22 
THE WITNESS: Yes. 
23 
BY MR. 
24 
Q. 
Who? 
25 
A. 
Myself. 
(561) 832-7500 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
(561) 832-7506 
Electronically signed by Sandra Townsend (401.377-676.2895) 
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9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
Page
Q. 
Why? 
2 
A. 
Because I made a stupid decision. 
3 
Q. 
Do you think the stupid decision you made had 
4 
at least partly to do with your age at the time? 
5 
MR. CRITTON: Form. Asked and answered about 
6 
three times. 
7 
THE WITNESS: Yes. 
8 
BY MR. 
Q. 
All right. That time that you took 
you 
said that she talked to you or asked you about going? 
A. 
Yes. 
Q. 
All right. At that point in your life were 
you -- had you started your job at 
A. 
Yes. 
Q. 
When did you start that job? 
A. 
I don't know. I cannot remember. 
22 
Q. 
But you don't remember how old you were when 
23 
you started that job? 
24 
A. 
I do not remember how old I was when I started 
25 
(561) 832-7500 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
(561) 832-7506 
Electronically signed by Sandra Townsend (401.377-676.2895) 
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2 
Q. 
Page 100 
When you first went to Jeffrey's home for the 
first time, were you working at 
then? 
3 
A. 
I don't remember. 
Q. 
6 
A. 
7 
Q. 
8 
A. 
9 
Q. 
And 
10 
the one 
11 
A. 
12 
Q. 
13 
A. 
14 
Q. 
15 
16 
17 
Did you work anywhere else beforellIIIII 
Before 
Yeah. 
I don't remember. 
we're talking about is 
in 
Yes. 
I think it's on 
Yes. 
Got you. Okay. 
Tell me about that first time you took I. How 
did that occur and what happened? 
A. 
Me and I. picked her up from her house. III 
19 
Q. 
Okay. 
20 
A. 
We drove to Jeffrey's house. We had a 
21 
discussion in the car about expectations. 
22 
Q. 
Tell me about that discussion. 
23 
A. 
I pretty much told her what was told to me, if 
24 
he asks your age, lie, say that you're 18. Don't 
25 
indicate that you're still in high school. The more you 
(561) 832-7500 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
(561) 832-7506 
Electronically signed by Sandra Townsend (401.377-676.2895) 
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