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And I'll tell you, when we talked about the 
sexual activity, and it comes out that she wasn't wearing 
10 
11 
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15 
16 
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her underwear when he was 
her and 
she does not recall how they came off. 
She cannot remember removing her underwear. She doesn't 
remember if Mr. Epstein removed her underwear. She knows 
her underwear was off, but she cannot tell you exactly at 
what point her underwear was removed. 
Q 
Let's talk about the third discrepancy. 
A 
The third is the sexual activity, when she was 
originally interviewed by detective 
vibrator or being 
about the 
When detective 
comes and sees her again a few weeks later, she does 
tell her at that time that a vibrator 
She, also says that to the grand jury, she talks about the 
purple vibrator 
Last night she told us about the purple vibrator 
When we asked her about him 
her, and that 
had told the police 
department that she had been 
told us last 
night that she was 
by Mr. Epstein, but that she 
thought only her and 
knew about this and that she 
did not want her father to know that. he had 
She didn't want anybody to know, but she especially didn't 
want her father to know, that that was her business. That 
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she did not know that 
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had told anybody, she thought 
2 
it was only her and 
that knew. She was embarrassed 
3 
and didn't want anybody to know that. 
Did she become visually upset? 
5 
A 
Yes, she began crying when we asked her about 
being 
. When she realized that we 
knew about that, she became very upset and concerned about 
her father. She mentioned that her father has read a lot 
9 
of the reports in the State of Florida, and has followed 
io 
the state's case. She was concerned about even telling 
11 
us, afraid that he would be able to read in our reports 
12 
about this. 
13 
we explained to her that the FBI's reporting is 
la 
a little bit different than the way the state -- those are 
15 
public records, and ours is part of our case file. 
16 
Q 
In addition to the fact that she had these 
17 
concerns about her father and she was embarrassed, in your 
18 
experience of interviewing victims of sexual abuse, is it 
19 
typical for them to not disclose all of the sexual 
20 
activity? 
21 
A 
Yes, it's very typical. And young girls, they 
22 
don't want to talk about it. This is just another case of 
23 
her not wanting to tell exactly what took place. 
24 
Q 
After that first visit to Mr. Epstein's house, 
25 
and the interviews with detective 
, did detective 
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ask 
to make what are called controlled calls? 
A 
Yes. 
Q 
Can you explain to the grand jury what a 
controlled call is? 
A 
A controlled call is where we actually have a 
listening device, where we have an individual place a call 
to somebody and we are able to record the other person's 
voice and the conversation that takes place between the 
person that we're having make the call and the person that 
they are calling. 
Q 
Who did detective 
ask 
to call? 
A 
was asked to call 
on the phone. 
Q 
And did she do so? 
A 
Yes, she did. 
Q 
Can you tell the grand jury when the calls were? 
A 
I believe the first call was made towards the 
end of March, I believe it was March 30. 
called 
at the Olive Garden where 
works. 
was 
concerned that 
father. had found out somehow and 
that they knew about it. And she refers to him as 
Jeffrey, but Mr. Epstein. 
told her that they did not know about 
Mr. Epstein. Later in the conversation 
tells her
that Mr. Epstein would like her to come back and work for 
him, and that maybe she could work for him tomorrow. So 
3 
Ii
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they agreed that there would be a call between 
and 
2 
tomorrow, that 
will call 
tomorrow. 
3 
Q 
Were there calls also made on March 31 of 2006? 
4 
A 
There were two calls made on March 31. The 
5 
first one she doesn't connect to 
The second call 
6 
that was made a short time later, 
answers the phone. 
7 
Again, there is a discussion about 
coming to work for 
8 
Mr. Epstein. 
tells 
-- one of the comments that 
9 
is made is, "The more you do, the more you make." 
is 
10 
asking her how much can I make. 
11 
Again, detective 
is there, and 
is 
12 
asking 
, how much can I make. 
is telling 
13 
that she'll have to ask Mr. Epstein that, that she is 
14 
going to see Mr. Epstein tomorrow and that she'll talk to • 
15 
Mr. Epstein. There is conversation about 
and her 
16 
twin sister possibly coming to Mr. Epstein's house. There 
17 
is some discussion about her coming to work for 
18 
Mr. Epstein. 
19 
Q 
Just so it's clear, because there were a lot of 
20 
shes, 
is• telling 
that 
is going to see 
21 
Epstein the following day? 
22 
A 
Yes. 
23 
Q 
And that 
is going to set up a schedule 
24 
with Mr. Epstein for 
and her sister to work for him? 
25 
A 
Yes. 
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1 
Q 
On. April 1, the following day, did 
make 
2 
calls to 
3 
A 
From the Palm Beach police department, they were 
4 
able to take voice mail messages left by 
on 
S 
phone stating that 
could come and work on Saturday 
6 
around 11:00. 
7 
Q 
I think you mentioned this last time, but in 
8 
case you didn't, did the Palm Beach police department do 
9 
trash pulls at Mr. Epstein's house? 
io 
A 
Yes, they did. 
11 
Q 
Was there anything of value related to this 
12 
series of calls that were recovered? 
13 
A 
Yes.. There was a trash pull done in the 
14 
beginning of April, and in the trash there was a piece of 
15 
paper that on it had 
name, 
name, and I 
16 
believe it was 10:30 listed on the piece of paper. 
17 
Q 
It said 
with 
on Saturday at 10:30? 
18 
A 
. Yes, it did. 
19 
Q 
In addition to the actual recordings of those 
20 
phone calls and voice mail messages, do you also have 
21 
telephone records from both 
cell phone and 
22 
cell phone that match up? 
23 
A 
Yes. 
24 
Q 
Just to go back to something that you mentioned. 
25 
Who actually gave the $300 cash to 
at the day she was 
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at Mr. Epstein's house? 
2 
A 
Mr. Epstein. 
3 
Q 
You mentioned a girl named 
4 
A 
Yes. 
5 
Q 
Was 
also interviewed? 
6 
A 
Yes, she was. 
7 
Q 
Was she asked about going with 
to take 
8 
girls to Mr. Epstein's house? 
9 
A 
Yes. 
10 
Q 
was she asked who the youngest-looking girl was? 
11 
A 
Yes. 
12 
Q 
What did she say? 
13 
A 
She discussed 
looking young in her 
14 
interview with the Palm Beach police department. 
15 
MS. 
Those are all of my questions 
16 
for you now. If you could please step outside, I'll 
17 
see if the grand jurors *have any. 
18 
(Witness excused, and then returned.) 
19 
BY MS. 
20 
Q 
Agent 
, we have just a few questions.. 
21 
One relates to the conversation between Mr. Epstein and 
22 
III/ 
about his exploits with other girls. Did Mr. Epstein 
23 
say anything about the age of those girls? 
24 
25 
talked about a young girl that he was in the back seat 
A 
He said that -- in particular on one case he 
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with, and her parents were in the front seat. He told 
that they were having sex in the back seat -- were 
doing sexual things in the back seat while he was carrying 
on a conversation with the parents in the front seat. I 
guess they were on their way home from a business party. 
This was one of the stories that he had talked about. 
Q 
But at no time did he provide any specific ages 
about any of those girls? 
10 
11 
A 
Q 
to Mr. 
No. 
what was 
age at the time she took 
Epstein's house? 
12 
A 
She was 18. 
13 
Q 
Did Mr. Epstein ask 
anything about her age? 
14 
A 
He did. He asked her how old she was, she said 
15 
she was 18. He asked her what grade she was in, she said 
16 
she was in the 12th grade. He asked her where she went to 
17 
school, and she said she went to Wellington. 
18 
Q 
I know we will be doing a lot more discussion 
19 
about 
later. But could you tell us briefly how 
20 
was recruited to go to Mr. Epstein's house? 
21 
A 
was at the beach, and two individuals 
22 
approached her about making money and giving a massage to 
23 
Mr. Epstein. 
24 
Q 
How old was 
when she first went to 
25 
Mr. Epstein's house? 
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A 
Through phone records, we have contact between 
2 
and 
starting at age 17. 
3 
MS. 
: Those are all the questions. 
4 
Thank you. 
5 
(Witness excused, and then returned,) 
6 
BY MS. 
7 
Q 
The question was, was there any particular 
evidence to suggest that Mr. Epstein knew that 
was 
9 
under the age of 18? 
10 
A 
I would say through the interviews of the 
11 
multiple girls that went to Mr. Epstein's house -- the way 
12 
that having seen 
last night, and now she's 16 -- this 
13 
was two years ago -- that 
age and behavior -- and 
14 
again, is that more circumstantial evidence? As far as 
15 
concrete evidence, no. But just by her appearance and her 
16 
mannerisms and how I observed her last night at age 16. 
17 
Q 
And that's consistent with what 
said
18 
during her statement, correct? 
19 
A 
Yes, it is. 
20 
MS. 
: Any other questions? 
21 
JUROR: Did she look 18? 
22 
THE WITNESS: Does 
look 18? Not in my 
23 
opinion, sir. 
24 
MS. 
: All right. Any other questions? 
25 
Okay, thank you, very much. 
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(Witness excused.) 
2 
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
I CERTIFY pages 1 to 28 is a true transcript of 
my shorthand notes of the testimony of 
before the Federal Grand Jury, West Palm 
Beach, Florida, on the 27th day of February, 2007. 
Dated at West Palm Beach, Florida this 18th day 
of March, 2007. 
16 
Philip W. May, Court Reporter 
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