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1 over and massage or can she work? / don't recall
2 the exact words.
3 Q Okay. And once you made those
4 appointments then who would normally take you and
5 the girls to the house?
6 A I would.
7 Q Okay. And you would drive?
8 A I would drive.
9 Q And were all -- wa's this always taking
10 place at Mr. Epstein's home?
11 A Yes.
12 Q On Brillo Way?
13 A That's correct.
14 Q When you spoke with on the
15 telephone, did you were all of these
16 conversations about setting up these appointments/
17 A when I would talk to
18 Q Yes.
19 A Yes. It would be pure business whenever
20 I talked to
21 Q So you didn't have any sort of friendly
22 relationship?
23 A No friendly relationship, never
24 socialized unless I was at the house. It wasn't
25 like that at all.
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1 Q Okay. Now when you would bring a new
2 girl over to the house, what would you do?
3 A Walk up the same way towards the back of
4 the house. They would let us in. I could sit in
'5 the kitchen with the girl. I would either wait
6 for to come in or Jeffrey. Most of the time
7 it was
8 would bring the girl upstairs
9 while I waited downstairs. After the massage, the
10 girl would come downstairs. I would get paid and
11 then we would leave.
12 Q Tell us how you would get paid when you
13 were the person who brought the girls.
14 A What do you mean how I would get paid?
15 Q Who would pay you?
16 A Jeffrey Epstein would pull me aside
17 whether it be in his, I guess, living room slash
18 office. He would just make sure that when he paid
19 me, it was just me and him, nobody else was
20 around.
21 • And how much would you get paid for each
22 girl?
23 A $200-
24 Q And again with the two 100 dollar bills?
25 A Always 100 dollar bills.
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1 Q Did you ever see the girl who actually
2 did the massages get paid?
3 A No, I never saw them get paid. He never
4 paid us in front of each other
5 Q Okay. Did the girls ever tell you that
6 they did get paid or how much they got paid?
7 A Most of the time.
8 Q Okay. And how much money would each
9 girl get paid?
10 A It ranges.
11 Q From?
12 A It ranges from 200 to some got paid 300.
13 Like I said, the more you do, the more you make.
14 There were a couple of girls that got paid 300,
15 400, and then there were a couple of girls that
16 got paid 200 maybe even 100.
17 Q Now you mentioned that usually
18 would take the girl upstairs?
19 A That's correct.
20 Q Were there ever instances where you took
21 the girl upstairs?
22 A Very rarely. I think it happened once
23 or twice where was doing something or she
24 would need me to go upstairs and set up. I would
25 just go upstairs. I would show her where the
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massage table was.
2 I would set it up for them. I would
3 show them where the towels were, put the towels on
4 the massage table and then I would tell them
5 Jeffrey would be in, in a minute and then I would
6 walk back downstairs and wait in the kitchen.
7 Q Okay. And when you were in these other
instances where you led the girl upstairs, besides
9 the massage table, did you ever see any other
10 implements that were used during the massage?
11 A I think there were maybe a few occasions
12 where I would walk upstairs to show the girl or
.13 maybe it was even when I first massaged him, there
14 was like a white on the table or a white
15
16 Q And can you describe that to the grand
17 jury?
18 A What it looked like?
19 Q What it looked like, yes.
20 A It was like a . It was really
21 The . It was white. I think
was
22 the top of it was maybe like pink. It
23 that's all I remember.
24 Q Okay. And did any of the girls ever
25 tell you that that
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1
2 Q Okay. Now I'm going to run through the
3 names of some girls that you brought just to
4 confirm with the grand jury that you brought them.
5 A Okay.
6
7 A That's correct.
8 Q
9 A Correct.
10
11 A Correct.
12 Q
13 A Yes.
14
15 A Yes.
16 Q
17 A Yes.
18 Q And then there is another girl,
19
20 A never, ever, ever worked for
21 Jeffrey. She accompanied me to his house I think
22 once or twice and waited in the kitchen with me,
23 but she never worked for him.
24 Q Okay. But she was somebody that you
25 brought along with you?
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1 A That is correct.
2 Q On visits?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Okay. In addition to those girls
5 that -- who I just named, you mentioned a woman,
6 , who is 23?
7 A Uh-huh.
8 Q Were there any other girls that you
9 recall bringing to Jeffrey Epstein's house?
10 A I cannot recall bringing anybody else.
11 Q Okay. Now one of those girls that we
12 mentioned .was correct?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And you told the police that Jeffrey
15 liked the best?
16 A Yes.
17 Q How old was
18 A She was around the same age as me, maybe
19 a grade lower than me.
20 Q Okay. So she was under age?
21 A Yes, correct.
22 Q And all of those girls who names I read
23 were under age when you brought them there?
24 A Except for
25 • Okay. What did look like?
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1 A was . She kind of looks
2 but she's , maybe. She
3 had a . She had
4
5 Q Was she thin or heavy?
6 A No. She was maybe -- she had a
7 figure, maybe a little than me.
8 Q And how tall do you think she was?
9 A About 5'5, 5'6.
10 Q Okay. And you knew that Jeffrey liked
1 1 because he would specifically request her?
12 A There was a few occasions that he would
13 specifically ask for her, correct.
14 Q Okay. And you mentioned that some of
15 the girls told you about the
16 correct?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Did some of girls tell you what happened
19 inside of that bedroom?
20 A A few of them did.
21 Q Let's talk first about
22 A Okay.
23 Q Did she tell you what happened?
24 A All that she really told me was that
25 they got into . He had tried
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) 1 fondling her. She wasn't having it, and then she
2 only got paid $100 and she felt like she was being
3 ripped off.
4 Q Okay. What about , did
5 she tell you about what happened?
6 A Yes.
7 Q What did she explain to you?
8 A , on the way home, had told me she
9 got paid $300, and basically let him
10 and
11 Q Okay. And she told you those things?
12 A She told me those things.
13 Q That he had and
14 had ?
15 A That's correct.
16 Q Okay. And that was -- when did she tell
17 you that?
18 A Right when we got outside into the
19 truck.
20 Q As you were driving away?
21 A That's correct.
22 Q Do you remember which other girls told
23 you about the
24 A I can't recall. I know there was
25 another one that said something about the
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1 massager, but I wasn't really paying attention.
2 Q Now when you first went and gave Mr.
3 Epstein the massage, did he ask for your telephone
4 number after you were finished?
5 A No, did.
6 did. And she took down your
7 telephone number?
8 A She took down my name and my telephone
9 number.
10 • After that, how was all contact made
11 with you?
12 A
13 • Directly to you?
14 A Directly toward me.
15 Q Okay. So were there any more instances
16 where she went either through or to
17 reach you?
18 A Absolutely not.
19 Q Okay. Now when you brought girls over
20 was it the same thing where they would ask for the
21 girl's name and number?
22 A Yes.
23 Q And when that happened, would they
24 continue to go through you to set up appointments?
25 A Most of time they went through me.
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1 Actually 99.9 percent of the time they went
2 through me. On a few occasions, the girls that
3 they liked the best, for instance, , after
4 a while me and stopped contact with each
5 other and Jeffrey just went strictly through her.
6 Q Okay. And when an appointment was made
7 directly with the girl, you wouldn't necessarily
8 know about it?
9 A I would not necessarily know about it.
10 Q And when the appointment was made
11 directly with the girl then you wouldn't get paid,
12 correct?
13 A Correct.
14 Q Did you hear or do you know whether some
15 girls that you brought, brought more girls?
16 A Yeah, I'm sure of it.
17 Q Okay. When did you first meet
18 Was it that day that you went to give the
19 massage?
20 A That's correct.
21 Q And how did you first meet her?
22 A Just walking in the kitchen and waiting
23 for somebody whether it be Epstein or
24 came and introduced herself as and I
25 learned that she was Epstein's assistant.
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1 Q And you said that she was the one who
2 took you upstairs on the first day?
3 A That's correct.
4 Q And we were talking earlier about how
5 appointments would be made for you to bring
6 additional girls, correct?
7 A Yes.
8 Q How far in advance would call you
9 to make appointments?
10 A It depends. Sometimes she would call me
11 a few days in advance. Jeffrey is going to be in
12 town tomorrow or this weekend, have a couple of
13 girls lined up or have a girl lined up. So it
14 would be anywhere between a couple of days to a
15 weekend.
16 Q Okay. Did you ever talk with or
17 did ever tell you anything about what
18 Jeffrey liked to do with the girls?
19 A Absolutely not. We never discussed
20 that.
21 Q Did you ever talk with her about a rumor
22 that you had heard that a girl had intercourse
23 with Jeffrey?
24 A One day I was talking on the phone with
25 and I addressed her with it, asking her
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1 about a rumor I heard of a girl sleeping with
2 Jeffrey, having intercourse, and making $1,000,
3 and she denied it and said that he doesn't do that
4 kind of thing, he just plays with them.
5 Q Okay. So she said that he didn't have
6 intercourse, he just liked to play with the girls?
7 A That's correct.
8 Q And when you spoke with the police, you
9 said that Jeffrey liked to
10
11 A That's correct.
12 Q What led you to believe that?
13 A He just did it. I just learned that
14 Epstein just
15 . It was like the new thing for him, and
16 it just started happening and more and more girls
17 were making comments.
18 Q So did know that he was
19
20 A Not that I know of. I didn't say
21 anything and I don't think she had an idea. I
22 think she knew there was playing going on. I
23 don't think she knew of what sort.
24 Q . Okay. So she knew that something sexual
25 was going on., but not necessarily what that
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1 entailed?
2 A Correct.
3 Q Okay. Did Jeffrey or or anyone
4 else who worked for Mr. Epstein ever ask you for
5 proof of someone's age?
6 A Never.
7 Q Did they ever specifically instruct you
8 that you shouldn't bring girls who were under age
9 to the house?
10 A Never.
1 1 Q And when you spoke with the police
12 department you said that at some point Jeffrey
13 said the younger the better?
14 A That's correct.
15 Q And even after that he never said to you
16 but make sure that they are over 18?
17 A We never discussed age. He never made a
18 comment about age except for that one time
19 about her being too old. He never told me to go
20 find under aged girls, but at the same time never
21 said make sure they are over 18. It was never
22 discussed.
23 Q Okay. All right.
24 I'm going to ask you to
25 step outside for a minute and I will find out
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1 if the grand jury has questions. Thank you
2 very much.
3 (Witness exits the Grand Jury Room.)
4 * *
5 (Witness enters the Grand Jury Room.)
6 BY
7 Q Hs. I have to remind you that
8 you are still under oath. There were just two
9 follow-up questions. The first one is something
1'0 that I think you spoke about earlier, but who
11 first asked you to find other girls?
12 A Who first asked me to first other girls?
13 Q Yes.
14 A That would be Epstein.
15 Q Okay. So Jeffrey asked you himself,
16 Jeffrey Epstein himself asked you?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Okay. And then the other question was:
19 Are you currently in contact with anyone who works
20 for Mr. Epstein or himself?
21 A I don't talk to any of the females that
22 I once brought over there. I haven't been in
23 contact with Epstein for years. He tried
24 contacting me a few times.
25 I haven't contacted him back. I refuse
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1 to talk to him. I refuse to talk to any of the
2 girls that were involved. However, I did live
3 with one of the girls in Orlando for a couple
4 months to a year. I haven't spoken to her in over
5 a year either.
6 Q Okay. So after and just so the grand
7 jury has a sense here, we are talking about the
8 2004 to 2005 period is when you were bringing
9 girls over?
10 A That's correct.
11 Q So since then
12 A I don't -- to be honest with you, I
13 think it was more 2003, 2004.
14 Q Okay.
15 A My junior senior year.
1,6 Q Okay. But anyhow it .was a couple of
17 years ago?
18 A Several years ago.
19 Q Okay.
20 Is there any follow up
21 on either of those points? Yes,
22 A GRAND JUROR: Was it Jeffrey Epstein
23 himself trying to contact you or
24 THE WITNESS: I don't know if it wasliim
25 directly. I know that his number showed up
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1 on my house phone. I'm assuming because
gill.
2 was there, I'm assuming that she is the
3 one that has been trying to contact me in the
4 past years. Epstein never talked directly to
5 me on the phone.
6 : Any other follow up?
7 Okay. Thank you, IIIIII Thank you for
8 coming.
9 (Witness was excused.)
10
1 1
12
13
14 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
15
16 I, Paula E. Angelocci, Certified Court
17 Reporter and Notary Public, do certify that the
18 transcript is a true and correct transcription of
19 my stenotype notes of the testimony of
20 taken before the Federal Grand Jury,
21 West Palm Beach, Florida.
22
AULA E. AANGHIQICCI, CSR #4869
23 Certified Court Reporter
24
25
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