EFTA00008920

GRAND JURY
EXHIBIT
2
3 UNITED STATES GRAND JURY
4 SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
5x
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
6
: November 19, 2019 Additional
1
GHISLAINE MAXWELL
(2018R01618)
-x
9
10 United States Courthouse
300 Quaroppas Street
11 White Plains, New York
12 June 29, 2020
10:04 a.m.
13
14 APPEARANCE S:
15 afa
Assistant United States Attorney
16
Assistant United States Attorney
L8
.9
20
21
22
23
Acting Grand Jury Reporter
24
25
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Transcription
D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Anna!). 410-9,4-0947
GM_GLSDNY_00000392
EFTA00008920

06/29/20 2
1 (Colloquy Precedes)
2 (Witness Enters Room)
3 (Time Noted: 10:16 a.m.)
4 called as a witness, having been duly sworn by
5 the Foreperson cf the Grand Jury, was examined and
6 testified as follows:
7 BY MS. III:
Q. Good morning.
9 A. Morning.
10 Q. Can you please state your full name for the
11 record?
12 A.
13 Q. So : recognize that you are wearing a mask and
14 behind Plexiglas. There's a microphone in front of you, it
15 you could just make an effort to speak into the mic and keep
16 your voice up that would be great.
17 A. No problem.
18 Q. Where do you currently work?
19 A. The Federal Bureau of Investigation.
20 Q. What is your title?
21 A. Special agent.
22 Q. Hew long have you worked as a special agent?
23 A. About three years, three years now.
24 Q. where are you currently assigned?
25 A. I work for the -- on the Violent Crimes against
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Transcription
D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947
GNI_Gl_SDNY_00000393
EFTA00008921

GRAND JURY
EXHIBIT
2
3 UNITED STATES GRAND JURY
4 SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
5x
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
6
: November 19, 2019 Additional
1
GHISLAINE MAXWELL
(2018R01618)
-x
9
10 United States Courthouse
300 Quaroppas Street
11 White Plains, New York
12 June 29, 2020
10:04 a.m.
13
14 APPEARANCE S:
15 afa
Assistant United States Attorney
16
Assistant United States Attorney
L8
.9
20
21
22
23
Acting Grand Jury Reporter
24
25
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Transcription
D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Anna!). 410-9,4-0947
GM_GLSDNY_00000392
EFTA00008920

06/29/20 3
1 Children squad.
2 Q. What are your duties and responsibilities as a
3 special agent on that squad?
4 A. We investigate crimes that have to do with child
5 sexual abuse material, sextortion, exploitation, and
6 enticement of minors, sex trafficking.
7 GRAND JUROR. Maybe if she could take the mask
8 off. I'm having -- is anybody having difficulty
understanding her?
10 MS. Thanks for letting me know. Would that
11 be okay with you if the witness took her mask off?
12 GRAND JUROR. We're okay with the Plexiglas,
13 right?
14 GRAND JUROR. Yeah.
15 MS. III. Thanks very much. Thank you.
16 BY MS. III:
17 Q. All right. So I'm just going to go back and ask
18 a few of those questions again just to make sure that
19 everyone can hear. You testified earlier that you're a
20 special agent with the FBI. Is that correct?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Where are you currently assigned?
23 A. I work on the Violent Crimes against Children
24 squad.
25 Q. And what are your duties and responsibilities as s
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Transcription
D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. 6 Annap. 410-974-0947
GM_GJ_SDNY_00000394
EFTA00008922

06/29/20 4
1 special agent on that squad?
2 A. We investigate crimes that involve child sexual
3 abuse material, sextortion, enticement, and exploitation of
4 minors, sex trafficking, international parental kidnappings.
5 MS. I. . Let me just pause here. Can everyone
6 hear the witness?
7 CRANE JUROR. Yes.
8 MS. Okay. Thank you. And Special Agent
9 , if you could just try to keep your voice up, I really
10 appreciate it. It's a little difficult under the
11 circumstances.
12 BY MS. III:
13 Q. Have you participated in an investigation of
14 Ghislaine Maxwell?
15 A. Yes, I have.
16 Q. Have you spoken to other people, including other
17 law enforcement officers, about this investigation?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Have you reviewed reports and documents prepared
20 by others regarding this case?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Is your testimony today based in part on those
23 conversations with other law enforcement officers and
24 documents that you have reviewed?
25 A. Yes.
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Transcripttnn
D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. 6 Annap. 410-974-0947
GM_GLSDN Y_00000395
EFTA00008923

06/29/20 5
ms.
1 Ladies and gentlemen, let me just give
2 you a brief instruction. Some of the testimony that you'll
3 hear today will include what's called hearsay. As you know,
4 that means that the witness will not be testifying solely
5 from her own observations, but that she'll also be reporting
6 to you what others have told her and what she's read in
7 reports and documents prepared by other people.
8 Hearsay evidence is admissible in these grand jury
9 proceedings, and you're free to rely on it in determining
10 whether there's probable cause to indict the proposed
11 defendant.
12 If, however, you would like to hear the testimony
13 of any other witness, you have the right to request it and
14 we will make reasonable efforts to bring that witness before
15 you.
16 BY MS..:
17 Q. Special Agent , we placed on the desk in
18 front of you a PowerPoint that is Grand Jury Exhibit 2,
19 which we're entering into the record. Do you recognize
20 this?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. What is it?
23 A. It's a PowerPoint presentation to assist in
24 testifying today.
25 Q. Did you participate in preparing this exhibit in
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Transcription
D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947
GM_GJ_SDNY_00000396
EFTA00008924

06/29/20 6
1 connection with your testimony today?
2 A. Yes, I did.
3 Q• If you could please turn to the first slide. Who
4 are the individuals depicted in these photographs?
5 A. The picture on the left is Ghislaine Maxwell, and
6 the picture on the right is Jeffrey Epstein with
7 Ghislaine Maxwell.
8
Q. Based on your participation in this investigation
9 and your review of public source materials, have Maxwell and
10 Epstein been photographed together many times over the
11 years?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Based on your participation in this investigation
14 and your review of public materials, where is Maxwell from?
15 A. Maxwell was born in France. She grew up in the
16 United Kingdom, was educated in Oxford, and is from a
17 wealthy family.
18 Q. Is she a citizen of France, the United Kingdom,
19 and the United States?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. How old is she currently?
22 A. 58.
23 Q. Has the FBI investigated Maxwell and Epstein's
24 conduct with minors during the 1990's?
25 A. Yes
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Transcription
D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. 6 Annap. 410-974-0947
GM_GJ_SDNY_O0OO0397
EFTA00008925

06/29/20 7
1 Q. Generally speaking, what have you learned about
2 the relationship between Maxwell and Epstein during the
3 1990's?
4 A. Epstein and Maxwell had a romantic relationship,
5 and she also worked for him; managing his homes, hiring and
6 firing individuals.
7 Q. During that time period, was she one of his
8 closest associates?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. During the course of this investigation, have you
11 learned where Epstein maintained properties in the 1990's?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Where did he maintain properties?
14 A. New York, Palm Beach, and New Mexico.
15 Q. Turning to the next slide, did he maintain an
16 address in Manhattan located at 9 East 71st Street?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Does this slide fairly and accurately depict the
19 residence?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Can you please describe that property for the
22 grand jury?
23 A. It's a seven story home; it's located near Central
24 Park. It's reportedly the largest residence in Manhattan.
25 Q. Based on your participation in this investigation,
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Transcription
D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947
GM_GJ_SDNY_00000398
EFTA00008926

06/29/20 8
1 did that house include a room that was used a massage room?
2 A. Yes, it did.
3 Q. All right. We'll talk more about that later, but
4 for now, moving on to the other properties. Did he maintain
5 an address in Palm Beach, Florida, located at 358 El Brillo
6 Way?
7 A. Yes.
8
Q. Turning to the next slide. Does this slide fairly
9 and accurately depict that residence?
10 A. Yes, it does.
11 Q. Could you please describe that property for the
12 grand jury?
13 A. It's a waterfront estate. It has an in ground
14 pool and a detached dwelling or pool house on the property
15 as well.
16 Q. And from your participation in this investigation
17 and your review of other materials, did that house include a
18 room that was used as a massage room?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Turning to the next property. Did Epstein also
21 own a ranch in New Mexico?
22 A. Yes, he did.
23 Q• And turning to the next slide. Was that property
24 located at 49 Zorro Ranch Road in Stanley, New Mexico?
25 A. Yes.
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Tranacription
D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. a Annap. 410-974-0947
GM_GLSDN Y_00000399
EFTA00008927

06/29/20 9
1 Q. Looking at the photograph on this slide, does this
2 accurately depict that property?
3 A. Yes, it does.
4 Q. And we've been talking about the properties that
5 Epstein owned during this time period. Did he also own a
private jet?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Is it fair to say that he was a multimillionaire
9 during this time period?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. During the 1990's did Epstein have an employee
12 who ran his house in Palm Beach?
13 A. Yes, he did.
14 Q. What was his job?
15 A. His job was making sure that everything in the
16 house ran smoothly. He referred -- he described that
17 Epstein liked to have his house run live a five-star hotel;
18 that everything had to be in its proper place. So he was
19 responsible for managing that.
20 Q. Have you interviewed
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. How many times?
23 A. Twice.
24 Q. And is the information you're about to provide
25 based on your interviews with
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Transcription
D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. a Annap. 410-974-0947
GNI_GLSDNY_00000400
EFTA00008928

06/29/20 10
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Did begin working for Epstein in the early 3
1990's?
4 A. Yes, he did.
5 Q. And at the time came to work for Epstein in
6 Palm Beach, was Epstein dating Ghislaine Maxwell at that
7 point?
8 A. Not at that time.
9 Q. Was it a few years before Epstein began dating
10 Maxwell after started working there?
11 A. Yes.
is
12 Q. From what told you, how did
13 work change once Maxwell arrived on the scene?
14 A. described Epstein as being more pleasant to
15 work with prior to Maxwell coming into the picture. Once
16 she came into the picture, he said things became more
17 secretive. He wasn't allowed to be in the room with guests,
18 wasn't allowed to talk with them, associate with them. It
19 became a different environment.
20 Q. You talked about some of the rules that were
21 placed changing. Were there any rule changes about eye
22 contact once Maxwell began staying in the Palm Beach house?
23 A. Yes. wasn't allowed to make eye contact
24 with Epstein and others.
25 Q. In general, how did he describe what it was like
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Transcription
D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. 6 Annap. 410-974-0947
GM_GJ_SDNY_00000401
EFTA00008929

06/29/20 11
1 to work for Maxwell?
2 A. He said she was very demanding; she was on top of
3 him all the time. He described her as a "bitch."
4 Q. Is that the word that he used?
5 A. That is the word he used.
6 Q. Shifting gears. I want to talk to you about
7 someone else that you've interviewed during this
8 investigation. During the course of this investigation,
9 have you participated in interviews with an individual named
10
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. So for these purposes I'm just going to refer to
13 her as Is that okay?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. How many times have you interviewed
16 A. Approximately five times.
17 Q. If you could please just page through the next two
18 slides in front of you. Are these photographs of
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Is it your understanding that these photographs
21 depict from approximately ages 13 to approximately 17?
22 A. Yes, it does.
23 Q. Okay. Let's take a look at some of those
24 photographs. I'm going to publish the next slide. Is
25 date of birth
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Transcription
D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947
GM_GLSDNY_00000402
EFTA00008930

06/29/20 12
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And are these two photographs of
3 A. Yes, they are.
4 Q. If you could turn to the second slide of
5 photographs. Are these also photographs of
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Based on your participation in this investigation
8 and your interviews with , where was she living when
9 she was approximately 14?
10 A. She was living in Palm Beach, Florida.
11 Q. Who was she living with when she was 14?
12 A. Her mother and her siblings.
13 Q. What was her whole life like at that time?
14 A. At that time, her father had passed away the year
15 prior, so the family was struggling financially and having
16 some difficulties.
17 Q. What did father do before he passed away?
18 What was his profession?
19 A. He was involved in the
20
21 Q. Was involved in the
22 A. Yes, she was.
23 Q. Were her siblings?
24 A. Yes.
25 0. What were they involved in?
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Transcription
D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Salt. 6 Annap. 410-974-0947
GM_GJ_SDNY_00000403
EFTA00008931

06/29/20 13
1 A. Singing, she was a singer.
2 Q. Like what kind of singer?
3 A. Opera.
4 Q. In the summer of 1994, how old was
5 A. She was 13 going on 14.
6 Q. You testified earlier that her birthday is in
7 , so did she turn 14 in of 1994?
8 A. Yes.
Q. What did she do that summer?
10 A. She attended an arts camp at Interlochen Center
11 for the Arts.
12 Q. And is Interlochen Summer Arts Program located in
13 Michigan?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Did meet Jeffrey Epstein and
lE Ghislaine Maxwell that summer?
17 A. Yes, she did.
18 Q. Did she meet them at summer camp?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. What did she tell you about that?
21 A. She said that she was sitting at a picnic table
22 with friends when Epstein and Maxwell walked by. They
23 stopped to talk to her, engaged her in conversation, asked
24 her if she liked her classes, her teachers. During that
25 conversation, they found out that she was also from Palm
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Transcription
D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947
GM_GJ_SDNY_00000404
EFTA00008932

06/29/20 14
1 Beach and that he said that he gives scholarships to
2 students.
3 Q. How did they leave the conversation? Was there
4 any contact information exchanged?
5 A. They asked for phone number.
6 Q. As part of your investigation, have you attempted
7 to gather records to corroborate that , Maxwell, and
8 Epstein were all at that summer camp that summer?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. If you could turn to the next slide, please. Have
11 you obtained records from Interlochen for the summer of
12 1994?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And what are we looking at on this slide:
15 A. This shows who -- some of the individuals that
16 were there -- were present for that camp in '94. On here is
17 and and
18 Q. And have you investigated whether Maxwell and
19 Epstein were also at Interlochen that summer of 1994 as
20 described?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Based on your review of records from Interlochen,
23 what is your understanding of Epstein's relationship with
24 Interlochen?
25 A. My understanding was that he was a donor to the
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Transcription
C.C. Area 301-261-1902
salt. 6 Annap. 410-974-0947
GM_GJ_SDNY_00000405
EFTA00008933

06/29/20 15
1 school.
2 Q. Did he make any substantial donations?
3 A. He did.
4 Q. Did he donate a lodge to the camp in the summer of 5
1994?
6 A. Yes, he did.
Q. Did he have a long standing relationship as a
donor to Interlochen?
9 A. Yes.
1C Q. Turning to the next slide. Is this an excerpt of
11 a letter from Interlochen to Epstein?
12 A. Yes, it is.
13 Q. And does this letter thank Epstein for donating a
14 scholarship lodge?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Does it invite Epstein to visit in August of 1994?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. In 1994, did Epstein have a private jet?
19 A. Yes, he did.
20 Q. Have you obtained the flight logs for that jet?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Do those logs include passenger lists and the
23 airport code for the airports that the plane flew into and
24 out of?
25 A. Yes.
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Transcription
D.C. Area 301-261-1502
Balt. 6 Annap. 410-974-0947
GM_GJ_SDNY_00000406
EFTA00008934

06/29/20 16
1 Q. Turning to the next slide. Is this a page of the
2 flight logs that you've reviewed?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And on this excerpt of the flight logs where the
5 red arrow is, is that a log entry showing an August 18, 1994
6 flight to an airport with the airport code TVC?
7 A. Yes.
Q• Is TVC the airport code for Cherry Capital Airport
9 in Traverse City, Michigan?
10 A. Yes, it is.
11 Q. About how far is that airport from Interlochen by
12 car?
13 A. It's about 25 minutes give or take.
14 Q. And who were the listed passengers on this flight?
15 A. Jeffrey Epstein, (ph.), and
16 (ph.).
17 Q. Turning to the next slide. Is this the same
18 excerpt but just with a different arrow?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Okay. So a few lines down is there a flight out
21 of Traverse City just two days later on August 20th, 1994?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And do the passengers listed in the flight out of
24 Traverse City include the initials G.M.?
25 A. Yes, they do.
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Transcription
D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947
GM_GJ_SDNY_00000407
EFTA00008935

06/29/20 17
1 Q. Are those Ghislaine Maxwell's initials?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Have you obtained any records from Interlochen to
4 indicate that Maxwell was at Interlochen in 1994?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. If we could turn to the next slide. Can you
7 please explain for the grand jury what we're looking at on
8 this slide?
9 A. This was a letter from interlochen explaining --
10 addressed to Maxwell telling her that they had found an
11 envelope in the lodge that they had been staying in.
12 Q. All right. We were talking a few moments ago
13 about how described meeting Maxwell and Epstein at
14 summer camp, and you testified that she provided them with
15 her phone number. Did explain to you whether or not
16 she had any contact with Epstein or Maxwell after she
17 returned home to Palm Beach?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. When was the next time that happened?
20 A. Shortly thereafter.
21 Q. And how did that occur?
22 A. She was invited to his house. So her and her
23 mother went to Epstein's house to visit.
24 Q. What did tell you about that visit to
25 Epstein's house with her mother?
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Transcription
D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. 6 Annap. 410-974-0947
GM_GJ_SDNY_00000408
EFTA00008936

06/29/20 18
1 A. She said it was wait, can you rephrase that?
Q. Of course. Did go to the house by herself
3 or with her mother?
4 A. With her mother.
5 Q. Okay. And when they went to the house, what did
6 they do there?
7 A. They had tea.
8 Q. Who was there when they had tea at the house?
9 A. Epstein and Maxwell.
10 Q. What did they discuss as they had tea?
11 A. They just talked about her life and, you know,
12 what she wanted to do.
13 Q. Did Epstein make any offers?
14 A. He said that he gives scholarships. He likes to
15 mentor people.
16 Q. How-did mother react when Epstein said
17 this?
18 A. She was happy for her daughter and oftentimes
19 referred to Epstein as Godfather.
20 Q. After that occasion when they went over to the
21 house, thereafter did subsequently begin regularly
22 spending time with Maxwell and Epstein at Epstein's house in
23 Palm Beach?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And did that start when she was approximately age
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Transcription
D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Salt. fi Annap. 410-974-0947
GM_GLSDNY_00000409
EFTA00008937

06/29/20 19
1 14?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Did it continue until she was about age 17?
4 A. Yes, it did.
5 Q. And during those years, did she regularly go over
6 to Epstein's house in Palm Reach and spend time with Maxwell
7 and Epstein?
A. Yes.
9 Q. What happened in the summer of 1997 when
10 was 17 and about to turn 18?
11 A. She moved to New York City.
12 Q. Why did she move to New York City?
13 A. She wanted to pursue a career in acting and
14 modeling.
15 Q. We'll talk about that in a moment, but for now
16 want to focus on the years you talked about in Palm Beach
17 from ages 14 to 17 when would regularly go to
18 Epstein's house. In the beginning, in the first few months
19 when she went there, what kinds of things did she do when
20 she would visit the house when Maxwell and Epstein were
21 there?
22 A. They'd hang out by the pool, he -- they would take
23 her to the movies, take her shopping. She described the
24 behavior as grooming.
25 Q. When you say grooming, did she explain what she
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Transcription
D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947
GM_GJ_SDNY_0000O41O
EFTA00008938