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1 District of Florida into giving Jeffrey Epstein a
2 good deal.
3 MR. SCAROLA: Move to strike the
4 unresponsive portions of the answer. And
5 obviously the break didn't do any good.
6 MR. SCOTT: Let's proceed.
7 MR. SCAROLA: We're going to.
8 BY MR. SCAROLA:
9 Q. You stated, quote: "If they," referring
10 to Bradley Edwards and Paul Cassell, "could find a
11 lawyer who helped draft the agreement" --
12 A. Right.
13 Q. -- "who also was a criminal having sex,
14 wow, that could help them blow up the agreement."
15 Did you make that statement on --
16 A. Yes. I just repeated it now, yes, under
17 oath, yes.
18 Q. Did you state the following in that same
19 interview: "So they," referring to Bradley Edwards,
20 Paul Cassell and , "sat down
21 together, the three of them, these two sleazy,
22 unprofessional disbarrable lawyers"
23 A. Uh-huh, uh-huh.
24 Q. -- "they said" --
25 MR. SCOTT: Let him ask the question.
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1
2 BY MR. SCAROLA:
3 Q. -- "who would fit into this description?
4 They and the woman got together and contrived and
5 made this up."
6 Did you make that statement on national
7 television?
8
A. Yes, and I just repeated it under oath. I
9 believe that to be the case. I think that's exactly
10 what happened. And I think that my source has
11 corroborated that.
12 By the way, can I add at this point -- I
13 don't mean to distract you, but I think the record
14 would be more complete if I indicated that I did get
15 a phone call last night from , who told me
16 that he had received numerous phone calls and texts
17 from trying to persuade her not to
18 talk to me or cooperate with me and offering the
19 help of a lawyer.
20 And I also -- although you didn't ask the
21 question, Mr. Scarola, I think for completeness and
22 fullness, I do want to say that you asked me whether
23 or not I knew about what could be taped and what
24 couldn't be taped. I did tape record some of what
25 [sic.) told me, with her
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1 permission, and I have those tape recordings.
2 Q. Well, you're getting a little bit
3 overexcited, Mr. Dershowitz, because you never tape
4 recorded anything that told you.
5 A. Did I say
6 Q. You misspoke.
7 A. I misspoke. You wouldn't know that. But,
8 in fact, let me be clear.
9 I tape recorded, with her permission,
10 statements to me about what
11 had told her. And I just want to make sure
12 that for completeness, even though you didn't ask
13 the question yesterday, that's part of the record.
14 Q. Well, I actually did ask the question and
15 my recollection is that you said you didn't even
16 think about tape recording anything --
17 MR. SCOTT: No, that's not accurate. You
18 never asked that.
19 BY MR. SCAROLA:
20 Q. But can you tell us, please, did you turn
21 over those tape recordings in the discovery that you
22 were required to make in this case?
23 A. The discovery -- these events occurred
24 after April of 2015. And I certainly turned over
25 the recordings and the -- recordings to my lawyers,
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1 who made transcripts of them.
2 Q. Did you turn them over to opposing
3 counsel --
4 MR. SCOTT: The transcripts --
5 BY MR. SCAROLA:
6 Q. -- in the course of discovery?
7 MR. SCOTT: The transcripts we consider to
8 be work product. If you make a request to
9 produce, we'll provide them.
10 MR. SIMPSON: Just for completeness, they
11 were also after your discovery request.
12 MR. SCOTT: Request to produce, we'll
13 consider providing them.
14 BY MR. SCAROLA:
15 Q. Is there an entry in any privilege log
16 that identifies these allegedly privileged work
17 product documents?
18 MR. SIMPSON: We will -- the lawyers will
19 address the document production issues. But
20 two things, Mr. Scarola, first, they postdate
21 your request and you have said several times
22 there's no duty to supplement. And second,
23 they're work product.
24 MR. SCAROLA: Well, sir, if they postdated
25 a full and complete production, which we are
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1 now told they do not, then you wouldn't be
2 obliged to supplement the production that had
3 already been completed. But it is not the date
4 of the request that matters, it is the date of
5 the production that matters.
6 And what we're now being told is there are
7 allegedly highly relevant transcripts of a
8 telephone conversation that occurred months ago
9 when the last production that we received,
10 which we are told still is not complete,
11 occurred approximately two weeks ago.
12 So, there's no privilege log entry.
13 There's no production of these documents. And
14 there is clearly a very significant discovery
15 violation if, in fact, such documents exist.
16 MR. SIMPSON: I'm not going to debate it
17 here, Mr. Scarola, but your assertions are not
18 accurate.
19 MR. SCAROLA: All right. There also was a
20 subpoena duces tecum that was responded to
21 tomorrow -- I'm sorry, yesterday. Can you tell
22 us whether the documents that are now being
23 described are included in response to the
24 subpoena duces tecum on the flash drive that
25 you provided to us?
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1 MR. SIMPSON: The flash drive is the same
2 as the document production.
3 MR. SCAROLA: So the answer is no, they're
4 not there; is that correct?
5 MR. SIMPSON: Correct.
6 MR. SCAROLA: Okay. And what's the
7 explanation for that?
8 MR. SIMPSON: I'm not going to debate this
9 on the record with you, Mr. Scarola.
10 MR. SCAROLA: All right. Thank you.
11 BY MR. SCAROLA:
12 Q. Which conversation with did you
13 tape record?
14 A. I tape recorded a conversation with her
15 permission where she told me that she was pressured,
16 she didn't -- where told me that
17 was pressured and that she didn't want to name me
18 but she was pressured to name me, that she had never
19 previously named me.
20 By the way, I told this to
21 lawyer.
22 : Objection. To the extent
23 you're going to reveal anything that was said
24 during settlement discussions, I'm moving for
25 sanctions, period. We're not doing this today.
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1 Please instruct the witness.
2 MR. SCOTT: Avoid that. We discussed that
3 yesterday.
4 THE WITNESS: That's fine.
5 BY MR. SCAROLA:
6 Q. What was the date of the phone
7 conversation that you tape recorded?
8 A. I don't recall. But it's on the
9 transcript.
10 Q. And does it also reflect that the
11 recording is being made with her permission?
12 A. Uh-huh.
13 Q. That's a yes?
14 A. Yes. Yes, that's a yes.
15 Q. What is last name?
16 A. You know last name and she has
17 asked me not to reveal it to the press. And so I
18 would like to comply with that -- with that request.
19 For purposes of discovery, you know her name, you
20 know her husband's name, you know her phone number,
21 and she has been called. But there's no reason for
22 me to reveal it so that it appears in the press that
23 she would be called by newspapers and by the media.
24 Q. Mr. Dershowitz, how do you know what I
25 know if you haven't told me?
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1 A. I know what you know because I'm a logical
2 person and I know that -- I know that
3 repeatedly called this -- this
4 woman and her husband, repeatedly text her, and
5 knows her name. And you and
6 lawyers are operating in privity here You're
7 whispering to each other, you're passing notes. You
8 are part of a joint legal team.
9 And if you want to know her name, all you
10 have to do is ask and she'll tell
11 you her name. I'm sure you know her name. And if
12 you don't know her name, it's because you haven't
13 asked.
14 Q. Okay. Well, I'm asking you --
15 A. I'm not going to tell you --
16 Q. -- and I'm telling you I don't know her
17 name.
18 A. Okay.
19 Q. Okay? As an officer of the court, I am
20 telling you I don't know her name. And you are
21 under oath and obliged to answer material and
22 relevant questions, and I want to know what her name
23 is.
24 MR. SCOTT: I will provide you the name
25 off the record, but I'm not -- if he feels it's
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1 inappropriate because of what -- he's not going
2 to answer the question. I will provide you the
3 name.
4 BY MR. SCAROLA:
5 Q. Okay. She has still insisted that her
6 name not be revealed; is that correct?
7 A. Her husband asked me to do whatever I
8 could not to put her name in front of the press, in
9 front of the media.
10 Q. There's no -- there's no one from the
11 press here today.
12 MR. SCOTT: Yeah, but they're going to
13 order the transcript and they're going to see,
14 so that's the same thing. And I've already
15 told
16 A. You will have her name in five --
17 MR. SCOTT: I will give you her name
18 A. -- minutes. All you have to do is --
19 MR. SCOTT: And, Jack, if you want to take
20 a break now --
21 THE REPORTER: Hold on. Hold on,
22 gentlemen. You can't talk at the same time.
23 MR. SCOTT: Let me do the talking at this
24 point.
25 THE WITNESS: Please.
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1 BY MR. SCAROLA:
2 Q. What's her phone number?
3 A. Her phone number is known to
-
4 and presumably -- and to
5 lawyers because she received phone calls from
6 ' lawyers. So all you have to do is
7 ask your colleagues and you will get that. But I
8 think there's no reason to put her phone number in
9 the public record so that she will receive massive
10 amounts of phone calls from the media. Seems to me
11 that any -- that a judge would try to prevent that
12 from happening. I would hope so. And I'm -- you
13 can get the name and the phone number from my lawyer
14 as long as it's --
15 MR. SCOTT: We'll provide that.
16 A. -- done off the record, not so that the
17 media can see it.
18 BY MR. SCAROLA:
19 Q. You just swore under oath that lawyers
20 contacted ; is that correct?
21 A. I swore under oath that I was told by
22 that lawyers contactedIIIIIIII, yes.
23 Q. Which lawyers?
24 A. I don't know the answer to that.
25 Q. Did you ask him?
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1 A. I did.
2 Q. And he said, I --
3 A. He wouldn't answer that.
4 Q. -- refuse to tell you?
5 A. No, he didn't know the answer to that
6 either because he didn't return the phone calls. He
7 said --
8 Q. How did he know they were lawyers if he
9 didn't return the phone calls?
10 A. Because they left messages, presumably.
11 Q. With names that identified them as
12 lawyers; is that right?
13 MR. SCOTT: You're arguing with the
14 witness --
15 A. I don't know the answer to that.
16 MR. SCAROLA: No, I'm trying to find out
17 whether there's any logical basis for the
18 stories that the witness is telling.
19 MR. SCOTT: And I think he's trying to
20 explain it. And I think he's trying to do it
21 in an easy, slow format. So, you know --
22 MR. SCAROLA: Okay. Well, let's take it
23 easy
24 MR. SCOTT: -- if we all take -- if we all
25 take the tension down here, maybe we can get
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1 more accomplished.
2 MR. SCAROLA: Let's take it easy and slow.
3 BY MR. SCAROLA:
4 Q. How did- tell you he knew these
5 people he didn't speak to were lawyers?
6 A. He told me that he received a phone call
7 from That then his wife received
8 numerous phone calls and texts from her all through
9 the night. And that they received phone calls as
10 well from her lawyers. One of them had a Miami
11 phone number.
12 And I don't know how he knew they were
13 lawyers. But that's what he conveyed to me. All I
14 can tell you is what he told me, and I'm telling you
15 that.
16 Q. Did you ask him for the phone number?
17 A. I did not.
18 Q. Why not?
19 A. I didn't think it was appropriate or
20 necessary.
21 Q. What was inappropriate about asking for
22 the phone number to find out who was attempting to
23 contact this witness?
24 A. I was not particularly interested in that.
25 All I was interested in was getting the truth from
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1 the witness and trying to prevent her from having a
2 media barrage that would interfere with their lives.
3 Q. You told on ■ that the flight
4 manifests would exonerate you, prove that you were
5 not in the same place at the same time as
-
6 , correct?
7 A. That's right. And that's true.
8 Q. You also told , quote, "I am
9 waiving the statute of limitations or any immunity."
10 A. That's right.
11 Q. You were then subsequently asked to waive
12 the statute of limitations and refused to, correct?
13 A. Absolutely false.
14 I waived the statute of limitations by
15 submitting a statement under oath. Had I not
16 submitted that statement under oath, the statute of
17 limitations would have been long gone. But by
18 stating under oath categorically that I did not have
19 any sexual contact with her, I waived the statute of
20 limitations and could be prosecuted for the next
21 five or so years for perjury in what I said was
22 false.
23 But what I said was true, so I have no
24 fear of any statute of limitations or any criminal
25 prosecution. So, yes, I did waive the statute of
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1 limitations, yes.
2 Q. You refused to waive the statute of
3 limitations with regard to sexual crimes, correct?
4 A. I didn't refuse anything. I didn't feel I
5 had any obligation to respond to you. And I did
6 not.
7 Q. So, you were asked to waive the statute of
8 limitations with regard to your sexual crimes and
9 you refused to respond?
10 A. I was asked by you, utterly
11 inappropriately, and what I had said -- and if you
12 check what I said, I said if any reasonable
13 prosecutor were to investigate the case and find
14 that there was any basis, I would then waive the
15 statute of limitations. I didn't waive the statute
16 of limitations because you, a lawyer, for two
17 unprofessional, unethical lawyers asked me to do so,
18 what obligation do I have to respond to you?
19 Q. Well, you have no obligation to respond to
20 me at all, Mr. Dershowitz, except now while you are
21 under oath and I am asking you questions and I would
22 greatly appreciate you responding to the questions
23 that I ask.
24 MR. SCOTT: I think he's trying.
25
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1 BY MR. SCAROLA:
2 Q. You made the further statement in that
3 same interview, "They dropped the dime on the media
4 when they filed it," referring to the CVRA
5 pleading
6 A. Right.
7 Q. -- in which were you named?
8 A. Right.
9 Q. What is the basis for that statement?
10 A. The basis for that statement was that the
11 filing was done virtually on the eve of New Year's
12 on a day that the press was completely dead. And
13 nonetheless, immediately upon the filing, I got a
14 barrage of phone calls that led me to conclude, and
15 led many, many, many other lawyers who called me to
16 conclude that obviously somebody tipped somebody off
17 that they didn't just happen to file -- to find in
18 the middle of an obscure pleading which didn't even
19 have a heading that indicated that I was involved or
20 anybody else was involved.
21 So, I'm certain that a dime was dropped to
22 somebody saying, by the way, you want an interesting
23 story, there's -- Prince Andrew of Great Britain and
24 Alan Dershowitz have been accused of sexual
25 misconduct. I still believe that.
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1 Q. And by dropping the dime on the media when
2 they filed it, you intended to convey the message
3 that Paul Cassell and Bradley Edwards intentionally
4 generated the focus of press attention on that
5 filing; is that correct?
6 A. Absolutely. Absolutely without any doubt.
7 Why else would they have brought Prince Andrew into
8 this filing? Prince Andrew had no connection to the
9 NPA, no relevance at all. But they knew that by
10 including Prince Andrew, this would drag my name
11 into every single newspaper and media outlet in the
12 world.
13 It was outrageous for them to do this.
14 Particularly because they did so little, if any,
15 investigation, which will, of course, be determined
16 when they're deposed. And -- and --
17 Q. Well, you've already made that
18 determination, right?
19 MR. SCOTT: Wait.
20 A. I'm convinced that -- that they did little
21 or no investigation. They never even bothered to
22 call me. That would have been
23 BY MR. SCAROLA:
24 Q. We'll get to that in just a moment.
25 A. -- a simple basic thing.
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1 Q. But right now -- right now could you
2 please tell us was there anything other than your
3 inferring that they must have contacted the media to
4 support your conclusion that either Paul Cassell or
5 Brad Edwards did, in fact, alert the media at the
6 time of the filing of this pleading?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. What else besides your inference?
9 A. When the BBC came to see me, the BBC
10 reporter showed me an e-mail from Paul Cassell,
11 which urged him, the BBC reporter, to ask me a
12 series of questions. So I knew that Paul Cassell
13 was in touch with the British media and was trying
14 to stimulate and initiate embarrassing questions to
15 be asked of me.
16 And when I spoke to a number of reporters,
17 they certainly -- obviously reporters have
18 privilege, but they said things that certainly led
19 me to infer that they had been in close touch with
20 your clients or representatives on their behalf.
21 Q. What was the date of the e-mail --
22 A. I don't know.
23 Q. -- that you referenced in that response?
24 A. I don't know.
25 Q. Well --
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1 A. It was whenever -- I'm not sure I ever saw
2 the date. He just quickly showed me the e-mail and
3 I quickly looked at it.
4 Q. The e-mail that you are referencing, in
5 fact, occurred after you had begun all of your media
6 appearances with respect to this filing --
7 A. Let me be very clear about
8 Q. -- didn't it, sir?
9 A. Let me be very clear about my media
10 appearances so that I --
11 Q. How about just answering the questions?
12 A. I'm trying to answer the question. All of
13 my media appearances --
14 Q. The question is: Did it occur before or
15 after your media -- your media appearances? That
16 doesn't call for a speech --
17 A. It came --
18 Q. it calls for before or after.
19 A. It came before some and after some. It
20 came, for example, before my appearance on the BBC
21 because they showed me the e-mail before they
22 interviewed me for the BBC. So some occurred -- it
23 occurred before some and it occurred after some.
24 Q. All right. So it is your assertion that
25 this single e-mail that you have made reference to
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1 where Paul Cassell says "asks Dershowitz these
2 questions" occurred before your -- your media
3 appearances and after your media appearances; is
4 that correct?
5 MR. SCOTT: Objection, form, argumentative
6 and repetitious.
7 A. It occurred before some of the media
8 appearances, and it occurred after some of media
9 appearances, yes.
10 BY MR. SCAROLA:
11 Q. Did it occur before your first media
12 appearances?
13 A. My first media appearances came as the
14 result of phone calls I received from --
15 Q. That's nonresponsive to my question, sir.
16 A. -- newspapers --
17 Q. I didn't ask you anything about what your
18 first media appearances occurred --
19 A. Yes, you did.
20 Q. -- as a result of. I asked you
21 MR. SCOTT: Let him ask his question.
22 BY MR. SCAROLA:
23 Q. -- whether the e-mail that you claimed to
24 have seen was sent before or after your first media
25 appearance?
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1 MR. SCOTT: I think he's answered that
2 twice.
3 A. It came after. It came after.
4 BY MR. SCAROLA:
5 Q. Thank you, sir. On , you made
6 another ■ Live appearance in an interview with
7 . Do you recall that?
8
A. I do not recall the name of the person --
9 Q. Take a look at the transcript, if you
10 would, please, page 15.
11 MR. SCOTT: Take a moment to review the
12 transcript, please, Mr. Dershowitz.
13 THE WITNESS: Page 15.
14 MR. SCOTT: Take your time to review that.
15 A. Yeah, that name is not familiar to me but,
16 of course, I remember doing an interview, yes.
17 BY MR. SCAROLA:
18 Q. All right, sir. And during the course of
19 that interview, you said: "There are flight
20 manifests. They will prove I was never on any
21 private airplane with any young woman." Correct?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Go to page 17, if you would.
24 A. Uh-huh.
25 Q. At line 4 of transcript of that same
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