EFTA01247021

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October 6, 2009 
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A. I wouldn't say that. I don't know that. 
O. Have you ever been on an airplane where you 
looked at this and you thought, -Hey, that's kind of 
strange that they wouldn't list them by name. They're 
talking about it generically: Female, female, female'? 
A. But they also --
MR. PIKE: Form. 
A. 
on another one: PAX, PAX, PAX. 
O. You never thought that was odd either? 
A. No. I never actually even really paid 
attention to this paperwork. I don't see this. 
MS. EZELL: Brad, excuse me • this is 
Kathy Ezell - is there a date on that manifest 
you're showing? 
MR. EDWARDS: It's-. 
MS. EZELL: Thanks. 
MR. EDWARDS: Is that your 12-year old 
client listed as No. 6? 
MR. PIKE: Form. Move to strike. 
MS. EZELL: No, but --
MR. EDWARDS: Okay, sorry, somebody 
eleet. 
MS. EZELL: Okay. Thanks. 
BY M 
DS: 
O. 
whop on them? 
155 
1 
what n says 
2 
A. It's •• I think it's aM. 
3 
Q. Alright Can you tell us who's on that 
4 
airplane? 
5 
A 
Jeffrey, looks like M, 
- is that 
6 
Jean Luc? 
O 
Yeah. 
a 
A. 
That's Jean Luc. I think. and 
9 
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O. Jean Luc is another one who travels Quite 
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frequently. Why, if you know. does he travel quite 
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Irequentkr on these airplanes to and from New York with 
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Jeffrey Epstein - any idea? 
la 
A. My only assumption was business, and 
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that's just an assumption. 
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O. 
What kirKI of business do you know of that they 
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have in common? 
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A. I was under the impression a modeling 
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business. 
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O. Other than the modeling agency, %Mat other 
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business do they engage in together. if you know? 
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A. I don't know. 
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O. Arid has Jeffrey Epstein ever talked to you 
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or loud enough to which you could hear him discussing the 
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modeling agency? 
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A. Ja
i n 
ME. David Mullen, 
Jensen, 
O. Do you lawny who Jansen is? 
A. No. 
O. David Mullen travels a lot. Do you have any 
idea whet his relationship is with Mr. Epstein? 
A. 
I don't even know who David Mullen really 
is 
O. Have you ever seen him? 
A. 
I might be able to place him if I saw a 
picture of him. 
O. I mean, obviously you're on the airplane with 
him a lot. 
A. Yeah, so. I mean, obviously I would 
recognize him if I saw a picture. 
O. Do you know if he travels with anybody else on 
this? 
A. Unless It's that one name I don't 
recognize - that Jansen. or whatever. 
O. But Jansen's not somebody you know? 
A. No. no. 
O. I can't read that date • maybe you can. I got 
a bad fax copy. 
A. MaybeMl. 
O. That's Michael Pike not wanting me to know 
156 
1 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
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A. No, just that the only conversation he 
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ever - I remember - was the one that he the one 
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aboul the girl opening the wrong door on the motor 
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home. 
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O. Was he happy or sad about the modeling agency/ 
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A. No. he was happy she wasn't injured. but 
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he was kind of making light of what a silly thing to 
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do, you know. 
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O. Do you know if Jean Luc is the one procuring 
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the models or IS Jeffrey procuring the models? 
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A. I don't know. 
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MR. PIKE: Form. 
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BY MR, EDWARDS: 
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O. You never investigated into how this modeling 
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agency is defog or anything else? 
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A. No. no interest 
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O. You try to stay completely out of it? 
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A. No interest. 
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O. Especially in light 01 the recent things 
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youve read. 
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A. I mean, I ain't have any interest in it 
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before all the recent things. 
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O 
I'm going to slop this one because it talks 
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about very similar people that you've already read. 
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Larry Eugene Morrison - Volume I 
October 6, 2009 
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A. 
Okay. 
O. No different names. 
MR. REINHART: Can we just get the date on 
the record? 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
O. 
Well, actually, we don't have to skip it. 
that's the date. right? 
A. Right. 
O. 
And it says: Ghislaine Maxwell — 
A. 
Okay. 
and 
(81c); is that right? 
A. 
That's what it says. 
O. Is that a typical crew that you would see on 
the plane? 
A. What year is this? In .? 
O. 
Yes. 
A. 
Yes, but towards the end there, I think 
the last year, l only saw Ms. Maxwell once. 
O. Do you know of any falling out of sorts that 
Ohislaine Maxwell and Epstein had? 
A. Well, no. I think they still 
I think 
she still has a lot of association, or whatever. 
O. Do you think they are still a couple? 
A. 
I don't know that they ever were. I never 
159 
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Stanleys are. 
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O. Ever heard of them? 
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A. No. 
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O. As far as you're concerned, they're some 
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islanders or something, right? I mean - 
A. 
Well, they might be 
mean 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
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A 
-- there's a tot of wealthy people down 
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there. They might have been friends or associates 
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that needed a lift back stateside. 
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O. Fair enough. 
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What's the next one? 
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A. Teterboro to PIK 
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O. 
And who's on it? 
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A. Jeffrey. =, 
and M. 
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MR. REINHART: Can we gel a date for the 
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record? 
16 
THE WITNESS:
19 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
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O. II seems like =and 
travel a lot 
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with Jeffrey. Is it ever your understanding that Jeffrey 
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Epstein had a sexual relationship with either of them? 
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A. That is not my understanding, no. 
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O. Do you know of 
having a boyfriend 
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ever? 
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did figure out the relationship, other than I assumed 
they were a couple and she was a business assistant -
associate, but that was all assumption. 
O. Did you ever know of Jeffrey Epstein to have a 
girlfriend, per se? 
A. If it would have been, it would have been 
Ms. Maxwell. 
O. 
Other than Ms. Maxwell, could you identity any 
other female that appeared to be in a intimate 
relationship with Jeffrey Epstein? 
A. Not really, not that I - not that I could 
say it was a relationship, no. 
O. I'm going to show you another one. I don't 
know these people. Tell me who they are. It looks like 
you're on the airplane --
MR. REINHART: Can we et a -- 
O. -- and the date 
A. Right. 
O. 
 
 It's 
going --
A. I don't know who the Stanleys are. 
O. And it's going from the island. 
A. To --
O. Palm Beach. 
A. 
Palm Beach. I don't know who the 
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A. I heard that she has a boyfriend. 
O. And what's his name? 
A. And this is just hearsay. I don't know. 
O. I'm interested in hearsay. 
A. I heard that she's dating somebody -
that's all. 
O. °atm whom? 
A. 
O. 
phonetic)? 
A. I don't know his last name. 
O. How long has she been dating him? 
A. I don't know. This is just Larry, you 
know, every once in a while asks. you know, 'What's 
going on?' 'Who's' -• You know, I don't know. 
O. Where Wes 
aye? 
O. And 
is somebody who you heard of through 
Larry \kiosk'? 
A. Yes. yes. 
O. And SpeCifiCalty what did Larry Visoski say 
about 
A. He thought that they were dating he and 
- and this is all hearsay. 
O. Since when? 
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A. This is 
I don't remember. Some 
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time within • maybe within the year. I don't know. 
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I don't know. 
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O 
So its your understanding then (Mt 
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somebody named' 
fair presumption that 
nearby as well. 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
A. I mean, that's not necessarily so. I 
mean, in this day and age when you can get back and 
forth to New York via airlines, or anywhere; I mean, 
at times. yes, that would be a fair assumption, but 
not continuously., 
O. And what was the context in which the 
conversation came up where Larry Visoski says. 
• who you have very little knowledge. I mean, I 
don't want to say 'very little knowledge" you obviously 
have seen her several times --
A. Yes. 
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A. Right, right. 
25 
O. Othefwise, how would that come about? 
and he is dating 
• that It would also be a 
would be somewhere 
163 
2 
O. And what else does he tell you? I mean, there 
3 
are other changes other than. 'Hey, 
dating 
A. 
A couple of the - couple of long time 
P800 03 
were laid off. 
O. 
A. 
O. 
A. 
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And other changes 
to the island. You know, I can't remember all the 
names. I believe Adam, who was the chef, at the 
island left. 
MR. PIKE: Hello? 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
O. Adam's the chef at the island? 
A. Yes. 
O. And why did he leave? 
A. I don/ - 
O. Epstein's not around to cook for? 
162 
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A. I don't remember how it came about. 
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actually. I think I just - several months ago I 
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asked what people were doing since, you know, there's 
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been a lot of changes in staff since the boss was, 
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you know, detained. There's been a lot of layoffs 
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and stuff. The conversation was he was updating me 
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as to who's still around, who's been laid off, you 
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know. who's not with the company anymore. who's not 
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with, you know, at certain houses. 
xo 
Q. When you say 'the boss' has been 'detained.' 
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the boss obviously Is Jeffrey Epstein? 
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A. Detect. Yes. 
13 
O. And you're having a conversation then with 
14 
Larry Visoski about the changes that necessarily are 
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made --
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A. Right. 
17 
O. 
because the boss is —
10 
A. Well --
19 
O. •• either incarcerated or under house arrest. 
20 
or whatever. 
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A. And the economy and everything, I mean. 
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O. In the course of that he tells u something 
23 
about. "Wel, 
is dating 
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A. Yeah, or - f think he said somelhin about 
25 
one of Jeffrey - 
164 
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A. 
Yeah. It may have been a layoff kind of 
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thing • and the economy too. I mean, everybody's 
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affected. 
4 
Q. Whirs your understanding abotl
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A. 
Just that they were laid off. I don't 
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know the exact reasoning that they were laid off. 
a 
O. And before we go back to this: Have you ever 
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been to that Zono Ranch — 
to 
A. 
Yes. 
11 
O. 
in New Mexico? 
12 
A. 
Yes. 
11 
O. How many times? 
14 
A. Several. 
15 
O. Why? 
16 
A. Because when we take them out there it was 
17 
too far to airline home. so we'd stay - stay at the 
33 
ranch. 
19 
O. 
And what was he there to do? 
20 
A. I have no idea. 
21 
O. 
Wee, you were al the ranch. right? 
22 
A. Yeah, but ifs a big complex. There's 
23 
The main house is literally probably 3 or 4 miles 
24 
from where we eta
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O. Was 
there also? 
EN? 
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A. I'm sure at times, yes, yes. 
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0. Well. I mean. usually he goos with his 
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A. 
The normal --
4 
0. -- his 
`
h
i
s
 
Ghistaine. 
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A. 
Yeah, his normal entourage. or whatever it 
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Is. 
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0. And was somebody there to schedule his people 
to come over and see him on a daily basis? 
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A. I don't know. I don't know how that 
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worked. 
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0. He's - 
12 
A. Like I say, he's up at the main house. 
13 
Once we were at the ranch there's really no contact. 
14 
0. Yeah, but I'm familiar with where this ranch 
15 
is. and it's kind of in the middle of nowhere, right? 
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A. 
Yeah. 
17 
0. And, you know, so when people come to or from 
18 
the ranch. I mean. you can't help but almost be familiar 
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that somebody's coming, right? 
30 
A. Well - 
21 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
22 
A. 
•• I mean, you would see a car drive by or 
23 
something or a truck. There's always a lot of 
24 
activity. constriction, and everything else going on. 
25 
Where we stayed at Ranch Central, the 
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IS 
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167 
Mexico ranch? 
A. Oh, no. no. 
0. You don't remember that? 
A. No. 
0. Could it have happened? 
A. It could have. 
O. 
But you just don't remember seeing that. 
A. No, I don't ever remember seeing that. 
0. Have you ever met Governor Bill Richardson? 
A. I saw him. He was --
0. How did you see him? 
A. He was at Ranch Central. He had been 
invited for dinner, or something, at the main house 
and they were corning down to get him. 
0. He was invited to the Zono Ranch. I can it 
that because that's apparently what Mr. Epstein's named 
a right? 
A. 
Yes. 
O. So Bill Richardson came to the Zone Ranch for 
what? 
A. I 
It was a dinner meeting or something, 
don't know. 
A. I think Mr. Richardson used to own the 
properly the ranch was built on. or something. I 
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166 
small, little - basically like little hotel rooms 
where we stayed. you know, it was on a busy road 
because there was always like a lot of construction 
stuff arid the ranch hands and everything up and down. 
0. Did you see girls going to visit him there? 
A. Yes. 
0. How often would girls go to visit him there? 
A. I don't know. 
0. Oid these 
A. Not that often. 
0. Did these seem like girls local to Now Mexico 
or had they just flown in on an airplane. landed a 
helicopter on the property? 
A. Oh, I don't know. I never --
MR. PIKE: Form. 
A. 
I never saw them up close. I mean 
O. Did they come in taxicabs? 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
A. I can't remember that • don't think so. 
0. You don't ever think a girl came in a taxicab 
to the New Mexico ranch? 
A. I don't ever remember seeing a taxicab on 
the ranch. 
0. Do you remember seeing girls two or three 
limes a day going to visit him while he was at the New 
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don't know. 
0. Did you stay for the dinner? 
A. Oh, no. no. I was down at Ranch Central 
and he was jusl there while they were going to escort 
him up to the main house. 
0. So Bill Richardson was where Epstein was where 
the dinner was. 
A. Yes, yes. 
0. And you were not there. 
A. Of course not. 
0. Who else besides Bill Richardson was there? 
A. I have no idea. 
0. Any knowledge of Bill Richardson being 
involved with any of the gals that would have been 
brought to the house? 
A. Oh, no, no, not that I have. 
0. Not that I know of. 
A. Not that I know, no. 
0. Because you were in such a place that you 
never would have known anyway, right? 
A. 
That's correct, yeah. 
0. What's your understanding as to Bill 
Richardseres connection to Mr. Epstein? 
A. I thought he was always just kind of 
politics. I believe • I heard at one time. I don't 
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October 6, 2009 
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169 
1 
know for a tact - I thought that part of the property 
2 
the Zorro was built on was owned by Bill Richardson. 
3 
He sold it to Jeffrey. 
4 
O. Ever known Bill Richardson to be on Epstein's 
5 
airplane? 
6 
A. No, not the Boeing. 
7 
O. 
Any plane. 
8 
A. 
I don't know that. 
9 
O. 
Was he ever on a plane that you were on? 
10 
A. No, not that I remember, not that I 
11 
remember. I remember -- I believe the only time I 
12 
met him was one time al Ranch Central. 
13 
O. Ever hear of a trust - Zorro Trust? 
14 
A. No. 
15 
O. 
Are you familiar with some of Epstein's 
16 
COrnpanies? 
17 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
18 
A. No. I mean, other than JEGE and Hyperion 
19 
and Air Ghislaine. 
20 
O. 
What's Air Ghislaine? 
21 
A. That's the helicopters that's what 
22 
they're under. 
23 
O. He named it after Ghislaine Maxwell? 
24 
A. Apparently so. I would assume so. 
25 
O. Well. I mean, I'm not trying to be difficult 
171 
1 
O. 
You've never heard that? 
2 
A. No. no. 
3 
O. Have you ever boon privy to any conversations 
4 
between Bill Richardson and Jeff Epstein? 
5 
A. No. 
6 
O. 
So you don't know what they were really 
7 
talking about. 
a 
A. No. No idea. 
9 
O. At the time when Bill Richardson was running 
10 
for president is that around the time when you remember 
I 
him being at Zone Ranch? 
12 
A. Before. before. What year did he run for 
13 
president? 
14 
O. 2007. 
15 
A. It had to have been well before because I 
16 
quit flying in February of '07. so. 
17 
O. Epstein ever tell you what his relationship is 
18 
with Bill RIChar0SOn7 
19 
A. No. 
20 
O. When you were at the ranch. did you over 
21 
notice underage girls al the ranch? 
22 
A. No. 
23 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
24 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
25 
O. Anybody ever told you that that ranch is used 
170 
1 
with you. 
2 
A. No, I wouldn't --
3 
O. I'm assuming you're not trying with me either. 
4 
A. No. I would assume so. I mean, that's an 
5 
unusual name. 
6 
O. Do you know Prince Andrew to be friends with 
7 
Jeffrey Epstein? 
8 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
9 
A. No, I don't know that — I don't know what 
10 
the tie Is. Like I say, I didn't know even know who 
11 
Prince Andrew is when I first heard of it. I would 
12 
have thought it would have been more of a tie with 
13 
Ms. Maxwell. 
14 
O. Right. Do you know of Ms. Maxwell bringing 
15 
the two. that being Prince Andrew, together with Mr. 
16 
Epstein? 
17 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
18 
A. That Oeuld be. yes. yep. 
19 
O. And at the time when Bill Richardson had this 
20 
meeting at Epstein's house. do you remember Glistaine 
21 
Maxwell also being there? 
22 
A. Can't say for sure. Can't say for sure. 
23 
O. Have you heard of Jeffrey Epstein winning the 
24 
lottery in New Mexico? 
25 
A. No. 
2 
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IS 
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172 
to transport girls through Mexico to the ranch? 
A. No. 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
O. The next exhibit that I'm going to show you -
which is all part of Composite Exhibit 1 - is a fight 
is that right? 
A. 
Yes. 
O. Who's on that? Nobody. That's a test flight? 
A. 
That's a test flight round robin. k's 
Only 17 minute. 
O 
A. 
PBI to Kennedy with Jeffrey, 
O. Do you know what his relationship is with 
/NS? 
A. No. 
O. Do you know what she does for him? 
A. No. only 
Isn't that the one that you 
told me you just mentioned earlier? I have no idea 
what her relationshp 
O. Has he ever told you what any of his employees 
actually do for him • why ho employs so many people to do 
so many different things - has he told you that? 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
• 
0 
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A. No, no. I mean, you know, who runs each 
house and who the driver is. stuff like that. No. he 
would never mention that. 
0. Has he ever told you what running a house 
entails? 
A. No, no. 
0. Has he ever told you that there's an extra 
pan of running the house that ensures that underage 
girls are going to be there for him every day? 
A. No. 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
O. 
That's not something you ever heard. 
A. No. 
0. 
Ilight log who's on it? 
A. Jeffrey, Ghislaine Maxwell. David Mullen. 
0. David Mullen - once again, we don't know who 
this guy is, do you? 
A. 
And I don't know. Honestly, I can't --
0. Do you know where he lives? 
A. No. 
0. Did you ever go visit Jeffrey Epstein while he 
was in jail? 
A. No. 
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0. And despite pleading guilty to procuring 
underage girls for the purposes of sex, you still feel 
comfortable leaving a 13. 14, 151rear-old girl around 
him? 
MR. PIKE: Form. Move to stoke. 
A. Yes. I meanlares. 
I 
don't know how he behaves around anybody else. I 
just know that the reseed that he showed me, I feel 
safe with my daughter. 
0. And have you read in detail the reports as to 
what happened at his house with the girls? 
A. Only —
MR. PIKE: Form. 
A. 
-- what's been in the newspapers and 
published. 
0. If you read and hear testimony given • well, I 
can tell you now - testimony has been oven in ths case 
that what happens is: A 13 or 14 year old is led 
upstairs by herself, told to get naked, he lays down on 
his back, there is a oriel massage before he turns over. 
exposes himself erect. masturbates while he tells this 13 
or 14 year old to pinch his nipples as hard as she can 
while he inserts his fingers into their vagina and 
ejaculates all over them before saying, *Take your money 
and leave.' 
1 
2 
3 
4 
5 
6 
a 
9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
174 
0. Why not? 
A. There was no purpose to it. There was no 
need to. 
0. He's your boss for a long time, right? 
A. Yeah. 
O. Was he good to you? 
A. Yes. 
O. 
Did you support him? 
A. Yes. 
O. 
You supported him while he was in jail? 
A. 
I was -- Yes. I mean. 
0. Did the allegations bother you? 
A. 
Yes. 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
0. Somebody that you still support despite the 
allegations? 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
A. Yes, yes. 
0. You realize that he did plead guilty to the 
Offenses as well, right? 
A. That's what I read. 
MR. PIKE: Form. Move to strike. That's 
not the fads. 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
176 
1 
MR. PIKE: Form. Move to strike. 
2 
8Y MR. EDWARDS: 
3 
0. Okay? Then, 'You can continue to come back 
4 
for $200 every time or every girl you bring me within 
5 
your age group and I get to do this again. I pay you 5200 
6 
per person.' If that is the testimony --
7 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
0. 
— that what happens behind closed doors with 
9 
him, do you still feel comfortable leaving a 13 or 14 
10 
year old in a room with Jeffrey Epstein? 
11 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
12 
A. If that, in fact, is what actually 
13 
happened. no. 
14 
0. I'll show you the next flight I 
is
15 
Here. just so these are In order, I'll -
16 
A. Okay. 
17 
0. Who's on that airplane? 
18 
A. 
Jeffrey, 
and 
19 
0. Seem to be people that he travels with 
20 
frequently. 
21 
A. Yes, normal - his normal entourage. 
22 
0. Have you read recently the agreement that was 
23 
entitled the 'Non-Prosecution Agreement'? 
24 
A. No. All I read was what was in the paper. 
25 
0. The 'Non-Prosecution Agreement' was an 
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1 
agreement between Epstein and the government where the 
2 
government agreed. 'We're not going to prosecute you for 
3 
only the sex crimes we know about: and in that they also 
4 
agree not to prosecute Jeffrey Epstein. IM= 
5 
In 
of IM 
6 
A. Okay. 
7 
0. 
as his co-conspirators. 
Do you know any of the acts that M, 
9 
or 
have done in an attempt to get Jeffrey Easton 
10 
young girls to molest? 
11 
A. Only what I've read in the paper. 
12 
MR. PIKE: Move to strike. 
13 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
14 
0. Again, Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell. and 
15 
who's that? 
16 
MR. REINHART: Can we get a date, please? 
17 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
15 
0. Sony, the date is_. 
On this night 
19 
log, who are the names? 
20 
A. Ohislaine -Jeffrey. Ghislaine Maxwell 
21 
22 
0. Do you know Ghislaine Maxwell on a social 
23 
level or only from hem? 
24 
A. No. just professional. 
25 
0. Do you know whether she is straight or 
and MM. 
179 
1 
0. This is the first time we've seen 
2 
mentioned on any flight logs. right? 
3 
A. Right. 
4 
Q. Do you find it at all peculiar that 
5 
is listed but certain other people who may or may not be 
6 
of age are listed generically - one female. Why would 
7 
they go out of their way to list 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
9 
A. 
I don't know. Maybe she was already an 
10 
employee or something. I don't know. 
11 
Q. If she's an employee at the time, then that 
12 
would be a good explanation, right? 
13 
A. Right. I don't know. 
14 
0. If she's not an employee, then is there any 
15 
explanation? 
16 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
17 
A. 
Unless 
No. I don't know. I don't 
le 
know. Maybe &9 asked her. That looks like Bel's 
19 
writing there when he was captain. 
20 
0. We'll move to 
21 
A. 
Okay. 
22 
0. Who's listed? 
23 
A. 
Actually. this wasn't even my flight. 
24 
This is: Jeffrey. 
female, 
female 
25 
• PEN to Kennedy. 
1 
2 
3 
4 
6 
7 
a 
to 
11 
• 
13 
14 
• 
16 
17 
le 
39 
10 
21 
22 
23 
24 
178 
bisexual? Do you know of any of hot girlfriends? 
A. 'do not know that 
0. Are you aware that Ghislaine Maxwell, in sworn 
testimony and in complaints. has been alleged to have 
used vibrators. dildos. and have sex with these underage 
girls as well? 
A. I dont --
MR. PIKE: Form. 
A. 
I was not aware of that. 
0. Do you know who 
s? 
A. 
I think IM used to be her 
VIII 
0. Used to be Ghislaine Maxwell' 
A. 
I batiste so, yeah, because 
0. Do you know if 
is underage or if she is 
of age at the time that this happened - at the time they 
list her name? 
A. Ofi, I dont know for sure. but. I mean. 
she when I 
ff it is the 
I remember. 
she was older. I mean, I cant even guess her age, 
mid-twenbes. tate twenties. I mean. 
0. Okay. Do you --
A II it's the 
I remember. 
180 
1 
0. Mars not your flight? 
2 
A. 
No. George Diaz is one of the few 
3 
engineers I used as a relief. See his name wntlon 
4 
in up there? 
5 
0. Yes, but it has your name written under it 
6 
right? 
7 
A. 
Well. yeah, because these are preprinted 
a 
forms. They neglected to scratch my name out. 
9 
0. Any idea why now they're going to list 'one 
10 
female, one female'? That doesn't seem to be protocol 
11 
hero. does it? 
12 
A. I don't -- Yeah. I have no idea. I don't 
13 
have an answer for that, I really don't. 
14 
0. Certanly, if you're able to get Ss 
to 
15 
tee you her name. it doesn't take much effort to get two 
16 
other people to tell you their name. right? 
17 
A. Like I say, the only thing I can thnk ol 
le 
VIII■an employee by twat time, that they knew 
19 
her. I don't know. 
20 
0. Did it ever at any point in time cross your 
21 
mind that there may be something illegal going on here -
22 
ever? 
23 
MS. EZELL: Form. 
24 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
25 
A. 
Define Mere.' 
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October 6, 2009 
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181 
D. Here when you're traveling on the airplane 
with these various girls and they're listed as 'one 
female' - generically listed - anything ever cross your 
mind, 'maybe something's not exactly kosher? 
A. No. 
MR. PIKE: Form, asked and answered 
several times. 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
O. Who's that? The date is 
A. Jeffrey, Ghislaine, and 
O. Let's see,MI and `both 
look like 
nobody's on thorn, so 
show them to you together. 
A. There might be remarks here: 'Maintenance 
test flight' out of Lake City. Florida. 
We were coming out of maintenance: 'No 
passengers, maintenance, relocation for the engineer 
repair.' 
O. Okay. 
who's on it? 
A. Jeffrey, 
, David Mullen. 
Min 
0. Last one. 
A. a8/8Mr 
David 
Mullen.
Mark Zeff --
O. Do you know who Mark Zeff Is? 
A. No - Daniell, Doug Shuttle, 
1 
2 
3 
4 
5 
6 
7 
8 
9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
la 
19 
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183 
A. I can't -- I can't say for sure. I mean, 
we used to carry a massage table on the airplane. I 
never saw one used. I don1 know for sure. 
O. Are you being paid to be here today? 
A. No, no. I mean, I'm on salary. I mean --
O. Right. 
A. -- because of • for the maintenance. but. 
no. 
O. Are you going to ask Jeffrey Epstein at some 
point in time, 'Why you hired an attorney to sit hero 
with me?' 
A. No. 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
A. I would never — I would not approach 
Jeffrey for that. 
O. Do you have any idea why Jeffrey Epstein might 
want an attorney to sit here for you? 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
A. No. I mean, maybe -- I dont know. 
O. Do you think that the attorney silting here is 
for the purpose so that you don't say anything to 
incriminate Jeffrey Epstein? 
A. No, no. I was told strictly that he was 
here upon my behalf. 
O. Do you know of any crimes, personally, that 
1 
2 
3 
4 
6 
7 
8 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
1.82 
O. Do you know who Daniell and 
aro? 
A. I think. I remember • sounds familiar. 
O. How did she look? 
A. I cant remember. I just --
O. Overage, underage? 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
A. I never saw any that I saw that looked to 
me underage. 
O. Have you ever been to Jeffrey Epstein's house 
- his Palm Beach house? 
A. Yes. 
G. You stayed for an emirs day? 
A. No, no. 
0. No? 
A. It would be like an hour at the most 
waiting to talk to him for a minute. No. 
O. Let me ask it this way: Has he ever told you 
that he's infatuated with massages? 
A. No, he's never told me that. 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
O. Have you ever known him to get a professional 
massage anywhere you go? 
A. Yea I believe so. 
O. Where? 
1 
2 
3 
4 
5 
6 
7 
8 
9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
la 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
184 
you witnessed Jeffrey Epstein committing? 
A. No. 
O. Would you --
A. No. 
O. -- go back - considering what you've read and 
what you may or may not believe - would you go back to 
working for Jeffrey Epstein? 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
A 
I can't say. I still work for him on a 
maintenance - to maintain the airplanes and stuff 
like that. so. 
O. You're on his payroll? 
A. 
Salaried, yes. 
O. Do you know who else is on his payroll? 
A. Well, Dave and Larry. 
O. 
Certainly. if I want to know more about his 
private life - do you know who's at his house? 
A. No. 
O. Do you know who his housekeeper is? 
A. No. 
O. Do you know who his architect is? 
A. No. no. 
O. Does Larry visit him at his house? 
A. I would assure so. 
O. Why do you say you would assume so? That 
0 
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185 
1 
means he told you something, right? 
2 
A. 
Well, he handles 
Jeffrey does a lot of 
3 
• he likes high-end stereo equipment and video 
4 
equipment, and Larry is an expert at audio and video 
5 
installations and stuff. 
6 
0. How about David Rodgers - ever at his house? 
7 
A. Probably, but more like on the grounds of 
8 
me, you know. 
9 
0. My other famous people that you met through 
10 
Jeff Epstein? 
11 
A. On the airplane? 
12 
O. Yes. 
13 
A. Walter Cronkite. 
14 
0. Oh, yeah? 
15 
A. He was very nice. Yeah. He was very 
16 
feeble, but he was very nice. We had to carry him 
17 
down the steps. 
18 
0. Where did that flight go to? 
19 
A. New York to St. Thomas. He's an avid 
20 
sailor. He loves to sail or loved to sail. 
21 
0. what's the magician's name - David 
22 
Copperfield? 
23 
A. No, I don't think I was on that. I don't 
24 
think I flew that. I heard that we had flown him. I 
25 
can't say for sure. I would remember that. I would 
2 
3 
4 
5 
6 
7 
8 
9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
187 
A. 
Yes, I guess. Yeah. I don't know 
exactly. 
0. Have you ever heard of 
sounds familiar, but I don't 
know --
0. Model? New York? 
A. 
No, I can't say that I have. 
0. 
A. Can't say that I have. 
0. Glenn Dubin? 
A. 
Glenn Dubin, yes. 
0. How do you know him? 
A. I think he's a money or finance manager of 
some form - associate of Jeffrey or Ghislaine's or 
both. 
0. And where does he live? 
A. I think he lives in California, I believe. 
0. What do you know about him? 
A. Well, he's • just all I just told you. I 
think he's - he's an options writer or something like 
- not an options writer, hedge funds or something 
like that. He's in money. Its -- He's got an 
airplane. I think he's got a quarter share or part 
of an airplane. 
0. DO you know anybody that owns any property 
A. 
186 
1 
remember B. I have never met David Copperfield, but 
2 
I heard that we had. Naomi Campbell - flew her a 
3 
couple tines. 
4 
0. What do you understand Naomi Campbell and 
5 
Jeffrey Epstein's relationship to be? 
6 
A. 
I don't. I assume it was modeling. I 
7 
don't know. It was like two trips. 
8 
0. Jeffrey Epstein ever tea you how long he was 
9 
in the modeling industry? 
10 
A. Never discussed it. 
11 
0. So the first you know of is whatever 
12 
involvement he's in with Jean Luc Brunel. 
13 
A. Right. 
14 
0. That's the first time --
15 
A. Yes. 
16 
0. -- you've never known him lo be in modeling. 
17 
A. Correct, that I was awaro of. And, 
18 
actually, nobody ever told me that but picking up 
19 
bits of conversation like such as the one about the 
20 
motor home door. 
21 
0. What exactly did he say about the motor home 
22 
door that led you to know that Epstein and modeling is --
23 
A. 
They were al - on location for a modeling 
24 
shoot and they had a motor home. 
25 
0. 
They meaning Jeffrey Epstein and somebody. 
188 
1 
with Epstein? 
2 
A 
No. 
3 
0. What other properties does Jeffrey Epstein 
4 
own? I know we talked about the Zero Ranch. the place 
5 
in New York, you talked about an island, West Palm Beach. 
6 
A. 
That's all that I'm aware ol. 
7 
0. How about Paris? 
A. I don't know that he owns them. That's 
9 
whore he goes for homes. 
10 
0. Ever go to Pahs with him? 
11 
A. He does have an apartment in Para. I 
12 
don't know • however that works out it irs a lease 
13 
or own or what. 
14 
0. Who are the house managers of the various 
15 
places that he owns? 
16 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
17 
A. I don't know anymore. There has been so 
18 
much shake up. you know. 
19 
0. Well. who were they? Do you know the 
20 
Freidman out in California? Do you know Eve am 
21 
Patrick? 
22 
A. No. 
23 
0. Alfredo Rodrigue?? 
24 
A. No. 
25 
0. Alright 
• 
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189 
1 
A. No, those are all I know. 
2 
0. You tell me. Who do you know? 
3 
A. God. I can't think. It's been so long 
4 
ago. 
5 
O. Other than Joe-Joe. 
6 
A. Well, Joe•Joe doesn't • he's just a driver 
7 
for New York - he and his wife. I could remember 
8 
them it I saw their names. I would know which house 
9 
they were associated with. I'm terrible with names 
10 
anymore, unfortunately. The couple that's now at the 
11 
ranch or was at the ranch is at the island helping 
12 
manage as an intern. 
13 
O. Who's that? 
14 
A. Honestly, I can't remember their names. 
15 
It you were to give me a name, I could attach it to 
16 
each house. 
17 
0. I wish I could. 
18 
A. Yeah, tm son , I can't. It's 
19 
O. Do you know 
20 
A. No. 
sounds familiar. I don't 
21 
know. 
22 
O. Something to do with the modeling agency? 
23 
A. Can't say for sure - can't say. 
24 
O. How about Kalib Shalom? 
25 
A. No, never heard of that one. 
1 
2 
3 
4 
6 
7 
a 
9 
10 
11. 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
191 
0. Do you remember a young woman name. who 
flew frequently with Jeffrey Epstein? 
A. No, I don't recall 
0. You mentioned a 
A. A` 
yes. I remember the name-. 
0. Can you describe-'? 
A. No, I'm sorry. I cant. I just recognize 
the name - or the sound of the name. 
0. Do you have any recollection as to what period 
of time -flew with Mr. Epstein? 
A. It was on one of those Passenger 
Manifests. I thought I only saw it one time. 
MR. REINHART: Kathy - this is Bruce • the 
passenger manifest that had that name on it was 
dated 
MS. EZELL: So al of those that Brad went 
over were '04 and '06. I believe. 
MR. REINHART: Correct, 
BY MS. EZELL: 
0. Let's see, did you ever fly Mr. Epstein to St. 
Louis? 
A. No. 
0. Did you ever fly him to San Francisco? 
A. No. 
0. What about France? 
190 
1 
MR. EDWARDS: Let me look over my notes 
2 
real fast. Anybody else going to have some 
3 
questions so I can look over my notes and maybe 
4 
ask a ample more? 
5 
MR. PIKE: Brad, when I get a chance to 
6 
cross, I definitely will have some questions for 
7 
the witness. 
a 
MR. EDWARDS: Okay. Any other plaintiff 
9 
attorneys? Kathy? I think Kathy quit on us -
1 co 
must have been loo boring. Anybody else? 
11 
Hold on Miko. Give me one minute and then 
12 
I think you can shoot. 
13 
MS. EZELL: Brad? 
14 
MR. EDWARDS: Yes? 
15 
MS. EZELL: I'm sorry, its Kathy. I 
16 
dolt realize my mute was on. I do have a few 
17 
questions. 
18 
MR. EDWARDS: Okay. Go ahead. 
19 
CROSS-EXAMINATION 
20 
BY MS. EZELL: 
21 
0. Mr. Morrison • forgive me, I didn't write it 
22 
down - when did you begin working for Mr. Epstein? 
23 
A. January 2001. 
24 
0. Do you remember a young woman named .? 
25 
A. No, I'm sorry, I can't - I don't. 
192 
1 
A. Yes. Paris. 
2 
0. And Spain? 
A. No, nope. 
4 
la Carmel? 
5 
A. Cannel? 
6 
MR. REINHART: California, Kathy? 
7 
MS. EZELL Yes 
a 
A. No, we wouldn't have Was that Monterey 
9 
area? 
10 
MR. REINHART: Yes. 
11 
A. Yes. 
12 
0. Monterey you did. Okay. 
13 
Do you remember a woman named= who would 
14 
accompany Bair* (sic) Maxwell? 
15 
A. Yes. I remember = 
I believe srie was 
16 
17 
0. And what was her function? 
18 
A. To the best of My knowledge, 
20 
0. Did there came a point in time where Ms. 
21 
Maxwell flaw her Own plane? 
22 
A. No. 
23 
0. Did there come a lime that you became aware 
24 
that she and Jeffrey Epstein were flying asParaiohl 
25 
A. Yes. 
-or—
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193 
1 
0. And whose plane would she fly on on those 
2 
occasions? 
3 
A. I don't know. There was -- She had a 
4 
fractional - of a flight options. She had some 
5 
flight options. When you said 
Can I ask — 
6 
0. Yes. 
7 
A. 
when you stated. 'Did she fly her own 
8 
planer, did you mean as a pilot? 
9 
O. 
Yes. yes. 
10 
A. No, no. I stand with, no. 
11 
0. Did you ever know her to fly a helicopter? 
12 
A. Yes. 
13 
0. And when was that? 
14 
A. Several times. I don't remember exactly 
15 
when she got her initial rating. Can't remember 
16 
exactly when she got her initial rating. It was 
17 
before - I think before - maybe around 2000, 2001. I 
18 
don't know that for a fact. 
19 
O. Among the various pilots that you have worked 
20 
with for Jeffrey Epstein, do you know of any who has a 
21 
house on the Zorro Ranch property? 
22 
A. Yes. 
23 
0. And who IS that? 
24 
A. LanyVisoski. 
25 
0. And do you know if he was given that house by 
195 
1 
A. I can't say that I have, no. I can't say 
2 
that I did. 
3 
0. Do you remember flying three young girls back 
4 
to France after Mr. Epstein's birthday party? 
A. No, no, I can't say that I do. and I 
6 
didn't remember what birthday - that there was a big 
7 
birthday party. 
0. Okay. Well, forget the party part. 
9 
A. Okay. 
10 
0. Were you aware that Mr. Brunel flew in three 
11 
12-year-old girls for Mr. Epstein's pleasure on his 
12 
birthday? 
13 
A. No. I was not aware of that, no. 
14 
0. And you have no recollection of having young 
15 
women that young on flights that you were flying on? 
16 
A. 
That's correct. 
17 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
te 
BY MS. EZELL: 
19 
0. I don't have any other questions. Thank you. 
20 
A. Thank you. 
21 
MR. EDWARDS: Mice. I don't really think 
22 
anybody— I'm Sony. 
23 
CROSS-EXAMINATION 
24 
BY MR. WILLITS: 
25 
0. Richard Willits here. I just have one 
194 
1 
Jeffrey Epstein? 
2 
A. 
I do not know. 
3 
0. Were you ever given any properties by Mr. 
4 
Epstein? 
5 
A. 
No. 
6 
0. You said that you did know Mr. Jean Luc 
7 
Brunel? 
8 
A. 
Yes. I knew of him - and it was as an 
9 
acquaintance • as a passenger. 
10 
O. Did you fly him to and from Paris? 
11 
A. 
Yes. 
12 
0. Do you ever remember flying three girls from 
13 
Paris for Mr. Brunel --
14 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
15 
O. -- to be guests of Mr. Epstein? 
16 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
17 
A. I can't say that I remember that exactly, 
18 
no, and I didn't know who • whose guests they were 
19 
for who. 
20 
O. Do you remember flying three young girls to 
21 
Mr. Epstein's birthday party? 
22 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
23 
A. I don't --
24 
O. I'm Sorry, I meant from France. 
25 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
196 
1 
question. sir. I didn't catch the complete and full 
2 
spading of your name. 
3 
A. My name? 
4 
0. Yes. sir . the witness? 
5 
A. Its Larry - Lana. Aktia. Romeo. Romeo. 
Yankee and last name is Morrison - Mike, Oscar, 
Romeo. Romeo. India. Sierra. Oscar Nowomber. 
MR. WILUTS: Thank you, at. 
9 
MR. EDWARDS: Mike, shoot. 
to 
MR. PIKE: Thank you. Thank you. 
11 
CROSS-EXAMINATION 
12 
BY MR. PIKE: 
13 
0. Mr. Morrison. my name is Michael Piko. I 
14 
represent Jeffrey Epstein. 
I5 
A. It 
16 
0. I'm going to ask you a couple of questions. 
17 
If you do not hear me, please ask me to repeat the 
18 
question - as In on a telephone and by virtue of be,ng 
19 
on the telephone. I've noticed that there's some lag time 
20 
between some answers and responses. 
21 
MR. PIKE: So, l3rad, Interrupt me, if I'm 
22 
talking over the witness as well. 
23 
BY MR. PIKE: 
24 
a 
Mr. Morrison. Mr. Edwards was talking to you 
25 
about your knowledge and information regarding passengers 
6 
7 
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1 
on Mr. Epstein's plane from January 1, 2001, up until the 
2 
time you stopped flying. Do you recall some of those 
3 
questions? 
4 
A. 
Yes. 
5 
0. With regard to the female passengers that Mr. 
6 
Edwards discussed with you. do you recall n any of them 
7 
ever left the plane in a scared manner? 
A. 
No. no. 
9 
O. Did any of those girls over appear to be 
10 
disheveled to you in any way? 
11 
A. 
No. 
12 
0. Did any of these girls that were on the plane 
13 
ever claim to be battered or sexually assaulted? 
14 
A. Not to me, no. 
15 
0. Did any of these women appear to be in shock 
16 
to you? 
17 
A. No. 
18 
MR. EDWARDS: Object to the form. 
19 
BY MR. PIKE: 
20 
O. Were any OI these women ever crying as they 
21 
exiled the plane when you were the plot? 
22 
A. No, not that I saw. 
23 
0. Did any of these women appear to be injured as 
24 
they exited the plane when you were a pilot? 
25 
A. No, net that I saw. 
199 
1 
first. 
2 
MR. PIKE: I have no further questions. 
3 
MR. EDWARDS: I have a couple more • just 
4 
follow-up • from what Kathy asked. 
5 
REDIRECT EXAMINATION 
6 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
7 
0. Did any of the people • along Mike Pike's 
e 
lines - did any of the girls on the airplane tell you 
9 
that he pled guilty to two felonies in court? 
10 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
11 
A. No, I haven't • I have not spoken to Mr. 
12 
Epstein. I don't believe --
13 
0. No. no. I think the question was: Did any of 
14 
the girls tell you that Mr. Epstein pled guilty in court? 
15 
A. 
Which girls? 
16 
0. Any of the girls on the airplane that we're 
17 
talking about. 
18 
A. No. I don't think -- Actually. I don't 
19 
know when he pied because I think I was - stopped 
20 
flying by then. 
21 
0. So there were a lot of things that happened on 
22 
the airplane that the girls didn't necessarily tell you 
23 
about. right? 
24 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
25 
A. That I wasn't — Like I say, going back to 
1 
2 
4 
6 
8 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
198 
0. Did any of these women ever tell you, as the 
captain of the plane, that they were forced to do 
something against their will white a passenger on the 
plane? 
MR. EDWARDS: Object to the form. 
A. 
I was 
Actually. to correct the 
question. I guess I was not captain - I was flight 
engineer but, no. 
0. Did they ever tell you that they had been 
forced to do anything inappropriate? 
A. No. 
O. Did they ever tell you that they had been 
assaulted in any way? 
A. No. 
O. Did they ever tell you that they had been 
kieppropriately touched in any way? 
A. No. 
MR. EDWARDS: Form. 
BY MR. PIKE: 
0. Did they ever tell you or did you ever hear of 
anyone Claiming that they had been sexually assaulted. 
battered, or raped while on the plane? 
MR. EDWARDS: Form. 
A. No. 
MR. REINHART: Give him a chance to object 
1 
2 
3 
4 
6 
7 
e 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
24 
25 
200 
• there was not even an opportunity or window for 
that question. because I believe it was after 
February of '07. 
0. That's true. 
Did any of the girls on the airplane tell you 
about things that happened on the airplane that he later 
pled guilty to? 
MR. PIKE: Form. 
A. No. 
0. Did any of the girls on the airplane really 
talk to you? 
A. No. 
0. Okay. so all of this is kind of say.
Akight. Got it. 
would accompany Ms. Maxwell. When you 
say •would 
n her; what did you mean about that? 
A. 
. Actually. I 
don't -- I didn't see 
very many times. I don't 
know when she stopped wonting there, but she would 
Yeah, I just 
She would be on trips with her --
0. And did you — 
A. 
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