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1 
Q. All right. So let's go back. 
2 
A. Okay. 
3 
Q. Where were you, what, what day of the week 
4 
was it that yov ic lii. call from, from the person 
5 
that you say v
li
a 
6 
A. I don't recall. 
7 
Q. What time of day was it? 
8 
A. I don't know. 
9 
Q. So you don't know where you were, don't 
10 
know what time of day it was. Do you know how long 
11 
the conversation took? 
12 
A. It probably wasn't that long. 
13 
Q. Do you know v4tat was discussed other than 
14 
you say that
 identified who she was? 
15 
A. How long did it -- I'm sorry. 
16 
Q. What else did you discuss? What was said 
17 
other than the fact that 
sa she introduced 
18 
herself and said she sita.
? 
19 
A. She introduced herself and said, you're 
20 
interested in the massage. I said yes, and that was 
21 
basically -- I mean, I don't recall everything, but it 
22 
was very, it was about getting there to do the massage. 
23 
Q. Okay. Well, was there more to the 
24 
conversation? 
25 
A. Not that I recall. 
Page 226 
1 
A. Like, ever again? 
2 
Q. Ever. 
3 
A. Yes. She contacted me again to come back to 
4 
the house. 
5 
Q. When did she do that? 
6 
A. I think it was after the second time that I 
7 
went. 
8 
Q. After the second time you went. And the 
9 
second time is when you went with your friends? 
10 
A. Yes. 
11 
Q. Okay. And where did that conversation 
12 
occur? 
13 
A. She -- Ilmow it was at a house. I don't know 
14 
whose house it was because I remember sitting on the 
15 
floor doing my makeup. And she called and asked if I 
16 
wanted to come back or if I referred anybody to do the 
17 
massage. And I said, no. And —
18 
Q. Go ahead. 
19 
A. I was — I blow I'm taking a lot of bathroom 
20 
breaks, but I have to use the restroom after. 
21 
Q. Okay. 
22 
A. You can ask a question and then I can go, 
23 
if... 
24 
Q. Okay. How die 
ever get your phone 
25 
number? 
Page 225 
1 
Q. Well, you just said that there was 
2 
something about getting there. What did that mean? 
3 
A. Getting to his house. 
4 
Q. So there -- in this conversation, first 
5 
conversation within, there must have been more 
6 
discussed. 
7 
A. Yeah. Like - 
8 
Q. Like, did you tell her anything? 
9 
A. About what? 
10 
Q. About anything that you can recall. 
11 
MR. MERMELSTEIN: Form. 
12 
THE WITNESS: No. 
13 
BY MR. LUTHER: 
14 
Q. Have you now told me every single thing 
15 
you can remember about the •t
=rntion you had with 
16 
this person that you said was =? 
17 
A. Yeah. 
18 
Q. Is there anything in the world that would 
19 
refresh your memory? 
20 
A. Not at this point, no. 
21 
Q. Okay. When, when -- did you have any 
22 
dismission with this lady, 
after this phone 
23 
call that you say you had with her? 
24 
A. Any time? 
25 
tl. Yeah, • 
time. 
Page 227 
1 
A. I don't know for sure, but from what I think, 
2 
it's from the person that told me about them. And then 
3 
I most likely went back to them and said I was 
4 
interested. I don't know 100 percent. 
5 
Q. Do you have a recollection, specific 
6 
recollection of having a second conversation with 
7 
the person that first —
8 
A. No. 
9 
Q. -- told you about this opportunity? 
10 
Do you want to take a bathroom break? 
11 
A. Yes. 
12 
.111VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record at 
13 
2
14 
(A brief recess was held.) 
15 
THE VIDF L—I RAPIER: We're back on the 
16 
record at 2:14m. 
17 
BY MR. LISITIER: 
18 
Q. Okay. After you had this phone call with 
19 
on that you said identified herself as 
20 
illi
swhat was the next thing you did with respect 
21 
to following up on this opportunity? 
22 
A. Like, how did I get there? 
23 
Q. No. Well, did you, 
u after you 
24 
got this call, did you contactla.? 
25 
A. I don't recall if I did. I 
'bably did 
8 (Pages 224 to 227) 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-051-976-2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-051.9762934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-051-976-2934) 
1830241kebeed-4107-90a1-6373e814deed 
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Page 228 
1 
knowingthat I wanted her to go with me. 
2 
Q. Do ou recall anything specifically about 
3 
contactinglta.? 
4 
A. I don't remember specifically, but I'm, Pm 
5 
sure I told her because she ended up coming with me. 
6 
Q. Well, did you then have to contact her to 
7 
arrange a time that s 
d go? 
8 
I don't recall 
made a time and I told 
9 
It, 
or if I spoke 
. Isjan't recall. 
10 
Q. Well, if you spoke toM. tout 
11 
when she could go, did you then call= back and 
12 
tell her when you guys could come? 
13 
A. I would have had to, but I don't recall that. 
14 
Q. So you don't know which of those things 
15 
happened. You don't know the specifics about how 
16 
the meeting was scheduled? 
17 
A. Fvacrly. 
18 
44)What did fl
., dide. -- do you recall 
19 
what told you when you contacted her and said 
20 
you'd received a call from somebody about going and 
21 
doing this? 
22 
A. From — actually from -9 
23 
Q. When you got the — when you told.. 
24 
about it, what, what did she say to you? 
25 
A. I don't remember. 
Page 230 
1. 
you? 
2 
A. Well, I got Epstein's address fromM, and 
3 
I took the taxi to his house. 
4 
Q,S1, when did you get Epstein's address 
5 
fro
t? 
6 
A. It was either from the phone call that I had 
7 
with her the first time, or if I did call her back, I 
8 
don't recall. 
9 
Q. Well, then you must have made some notes 
10 
of a phone call that you had with her, right, in 
11 
order to write the address down? 
12 
A. Yeah. 
13 
Q. Well, do you recall making any notes? 
14 
A. !don't recall malting notes, but I know I have 
15 
a horrible memory, and if I had I had to have his 
16 
address in order to get the tail to go there. 
17 
QT j2do you know when you got the directions 
18 
from 
? 
19 
A. No. 
20 
Q. Could hav
iii in a second or third phone 
21 
conversation with 
? 
22 
A. It could have been. 
23 
Q. And you would have contacted her, if 
24 
that's what occurred, to get the, the instructions 
25 
from her? 
I 
Page 229 
1 
Q. Do you remember where she was when you had 
2 
the cor
ation with her about the call you got 
3 
from..? 
4 
A. No. 
5 
Q. Do you remember how long it was between 
6 
the time that 
called you and when you 
7 
contacted 
.9
8 
A. No. 
9 
Q. Was it more than a day? 
10 
A. Probably not. 
11 
Q. You just don't know. 
12 
A. I don% know. I really don't. I don't 
13 
remember. 
14 
Q. But, but do you have — do you
 lieve 
15 
that what you did was you contacted..? 
16 
A. Yes. 
17 
Q. And you told her of your communication 
18 
with this person that you said, said they were 
19 
20 
A. Yes. 
21 
Q. What's the next thing you recall happening 
22 
with respect to, to going to Mr. Epstein's? 
23 
A. The next thing I recall happening is getting 
24 
picked up in a taxi. 
25 
Q. How did, how did the taxi know to come get 
Page 231 
1 
A. Yes. 
2 
Q. Did you get anything from her other than 
3 
the address? 
4 
A. No. 
5 
Q. Did you know where it was? 
6 
A. She just said Palm Beach and she gave me the 
7 
address. 
8 
Q. All right. So, so, at some point in time 
9 
you contacted a cab company? 
10 
A. Yes. 
11 
Q. What cab company? 
12 
A. I have no idea. 
13 
Q. And, and where did this cab company pidc 
14 
you up? 
15 
A. At my father's house. 
16 
Q. And, and what time of clay did they pick 
17 
you up? 
18 
A. It was, it was during the day, but I don't 
19 
}mow what time it was. 
20 
Q. Well, was thls during the school day —
21 
school week? 
22 
A. No. It couldn't have been. 
23 
Q. So you didn't go during the school week? 
24 
A. No. 
25 
Q. So that would mean it had to be either a 
9 (Pages 228 to 231) 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-051-976.2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthie hopkins (601.051.976.2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-051-976-2934) 
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Page 232 
1 
Saturday or Sunday-, is that right? 
2 
A. Probably. Yes —
3 
Q. Do you know? 
4 
A. 
because it had to be because I didn't have 
5 
school, so it had to be a weekend or a day I didn't have 
6 
school. 
7 
Q. Is there any reason why you say you didn't 
8 
have school? 
9 
A. Because I didn't skip school my sophomore 
10 
year. 
11 
Q. Okay. All right. So you — was it a 
12 
Saturday or a Sunday? Do you know which of those? 
13 
A. No. 
14 
Q. Would you, would you have gone on Sunday? 
15 
A. I don't, I don't — I, I mean, it — as long 
16 
as I didn't have school, I didn't, it didn't matter to 
17 
me. 
18 
Q. Who selected the day that you. and the 
19 
time that 
to go, you or thi. 
person? 
20 
A. Nofl 
She had a schedule. 
21. 
Q. Dicey. So,oiliou remegalsr if you 
22 
called the cab or, 
(sic) --a. called the 
23 
cab? 
24 
A. I don't m 
that. 
25 
Q. Where 
..z
wa. 
at the time you called the 
Page 233 
1 
cab? 
2 
A. She was with me at my Dad's house. 
3 
Q. So she was already at your Dad's house? 
4 
A. Yes. 
5 
Q. So, so at some point prior to the time the 
6 
cab, the cab got there, she had already come over to 
7 
your house. 
8 
A. Yes. 
9 
Q. Was she there for some other reason, or 
10 
had she come specifically because you and she 
11 
planned to go to Mr. Epstein's? 
12 
A. I don't recall exactly, but it was probably 
13 
because we were going to go give the massage. 
14 
Q. Do you, do you 'mow whether she spent the 
15 
night the night before, for example? 
16 
A. I don't recall. 
17 
Q. Do you remember what she was wearing? 
18 
A. No. 
19 
Q. Okay. And your dad was living where at 
20 
this time? 
21 
A. In Binks Forest. 
22 
Q. So, a cab, a cab from some unknown cab 
23 
company comes and gets you —
24 
A. Yes. 
25 
a  -  is that ri 
Page 234 
1 
A. Yes. 
2 
Q. All right. Did you or she have any money? 
3 
A. On us? No. 
4 
Q. Did you have any credit cards? 
5 
A. No. 
6 
Q. The cab driver say anything about how you 
7 
were going to pay for the cab faze? 
8 
A. No. 
9 
Q. Did you say anything to him? 
10 
A. No. 
11 
Q. Dicey. And, and you got in the cab, I 
12 
assume? 
13 
A. Yes. 
14 
Q. And who gave the cab driver instructions 
15 
on where to go? 
16 
A. I gave him the address. 
17 
Q. Did you tell him what the address was? 
18 
A. Yes. 
19 
Q. Okay. And he took you there? 
20 
A. Yes. 
21 
Q. And any recollection of but you don't 
22 
know what time of day this was? 
23 
A. It was during the day. I just don't know what 
24 
time it was. 
25 
Q. Well, do you know, was it in the rimming, 
Page 235 
1 
was it in the afternoon? 
2 
A. Maybe early afternoon, but that's — I mean 
3 
that's guessing. I don't know. 
4 
Q. Okay. Do you remember where this house 
5 
was? 
6 
A. As in, like, the exact street, or... 
7 
Q. That's fine. Do you lynx-other the abeet? 
8 
A. No. 
9 
Q Do you remember where — what town it was 
10 
in? 
11 
A. All I know, it was in Palm Beach on the water. 
12 
Q. All right. When you are you talking 
13 
about the ocean? 
14 
A. Yeah., I'm pretty sure it was the ocean, yeah. 
15 
Q. Okay. Do you remember how you got there? 
16 
A. Alexi 
17 
Q. Do you remember the route that you took? 
18 
A. No. I'm horrible with directions. 
19 
Q. All right Do you remember, did you, did 
20 
you go outside or were you able to view the ocean 
21 
from the house? 
22 
A. The second time. 
23 
Q. Okay. And the second time... 
24 
A. I didn't go upstairs the second time. 
25 
a. But, but were 
outside the house the 
10 (Pages 232 to 235) 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkIns (601.051-976.2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-051.976-2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-051-976-2934) 
14302443a-be9d4107-9041413734816640d 
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2 
3 
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5 
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14 
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24 
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Page 236 
second time? 
A. I, I was in the kitchen, and that was a 
sliding glass door and you could see out back and he 
had the pool with the ocean. 
Q. Okay. So you, you were able to — at that 
time, you were able to observe the ocean from the 
house? 
A. Yes, but the first time I didn't. 
Q. Okay. All right. When you got there in 
the cab, how did you pay the cab driver? 
A. Jeffrey Epstein did. 
Q. Did he walk out of the house and pay the 
cab driver? 
A We went to the door, Jeffrey Epstein answered. 
He gave me the tnoney. 
it to the cab driver. The 
cab driver left and then =came and took us 
upstairs. 
Q. Is that the first time you had seen 
Mr. Epstein? 
A. Yes. 
Q. And what did — have you ever seen a 
picture of Mr. Epstein? 
A. Before that? 
Q. Yeah. 
A No. 
Page 238 
1 
A. I don't remember. I just paid the cab with 
2 
it. 
3 
Q. And did he — do you remember what the 
4 
denomination of currency was? 
5 
A. No. 
6 
Q. Did he answer — did you go up and ring a 
7 
doorbell? 
8 
A. I either knocked or rang the doorbell. 
9 
Q. Do you remember which? 
10 
A. No. 
11 
Q. Okay. And you say Mr. Epstein is the one 
12 
that answered the door? 
13 
A. Yes. 
14 
Q. What was he wearing? 
15 
A. Pm pretty sure he was the one that answered 
16 
the door. 
17 
Q. When you say you're pretty sure —
18 
A. I'm pretty 
he answered the door. I 
19 
don't know if it was 
answered the door and 
20 
then got Jeffrey Epstein, or Jeffrey Epstein answered 
21 
the door. I, I don't remember. 
22 
Q. What was he wearing? 
23 
A. Like sweats, like --
24 
Q. What color? 
25 
A. Color? 
Page 237 
1 
Q. Have you seen a picture of Mr. Epstein 
2 
since then? 
3 
A. Since - and like, now, recently? 
4 
Q. Anytime since then, have you ever seen a 
5 
picture of Mr. Epstein? 
A. Yes. 
7 
Q. Where have you seen a picture of him? 
8 
A. Actually, I was watching MTV, and a show came 
9 
on about the richest men in the world, and his face 
10 
showed up one time. 
11 
Q. And when was that? 
12 
A. That was — I think that was one time in 
13 
Virginia. 
14 
Q. Within the last couple of years? 
15 
A. Yeah. 
16 
Q. Okay. So, Mr. Epstein gives you money 
17 
when you come to the door. 
you came to the door 
18 
out of the cab with you an 
? 
19 
A I don't remember if 
stayed at the cab 
20 
while I got the money, or she came with me. I don't 
21 
recall that. I don't remember. 
22 
Q. But, but you recall Mr. Epstein handing 
23 
you some money? 
24 
A. Yes. 
25 
(),; 2lowmuckah did he give you? 
1 
2 
3 
4 
5 
6 
7 
8 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
Page 239 
Q. Ilh-huh. 
A. I don't know. 
Q. Did they have any writing on them? 
A. I have no idea. 
Q. Well, are you talking about a sweatsuit, 
top and bottom? 
A. The top, I don't remember, but I know he had, 
like, sweatpants on. 
Q. Okay. And he personally handed you some 
money. 
A, Yes. 
Q. And then you say you went out and paid the 
cab driver? 
A. Yes. 
Q. What did you do next? 
A. Then I came back to the door. 
Q. . Was Mr. Epstein standing there when you 
came back? 
• A. No. 
Q. Okay. And, and how did you know who this 
person was? 
A. She introduced herself. 
. Okay. What did she say to you? 
11 (Pages 236 to 239) 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601451-976-2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-051.976.2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-051976-2934) 
la30246a-bc9d-4107-90a1-6373e816dead 
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Page 240 
1 
A. Hello, I'm 
i spoke to you over the 
2 
phone. 
3 
Q. And what was she wearing? 
4 
A. I have no idea. 
Q. What did she look like? 
A. She was — I think she was light skin. 
7 
mean, this is — dirty blonde hair. I don't really 
recall exactly. 
9 
Q. But you're sure she had blonde hair, 
10 
right? 
11 
A. I'm not sure. I'm not going to say I'm sure 
12 
because the image I'm getting now, it's like a dirty 
13 
blonde hair, but I don't, I don't recall exactly. 
14 
Q. Yeah. 
15 
A. So I'm not going to say definitely. 
16 
Q. Anything else that you remember about her? 
17 
Did she have any jewelry on? 
18 
A. I have no idea. 
19 
Q. Was — I think you already said you don't 
20 
remember what kind of — do you remember if she had 
21. 
pants on, a dress on, shorts, any of that? 
22 
A. I have no idea. 
23 
Q. You don't remember anything about what she 
24 
was wearing? 
25 
A. No. 
Page 241 
1 
Q. How big a girl is she? 
2 
A. I — from what I remember, she was skinny. 
3 
Q. Skinny? 
4 
A. Tiny. 
5 
S 
All right. So, anyway, you, did — was 
6 
with you at that point in time? 
7 
A. Yes, because we got walked upstairs. 
8 
Q. Okay. And then what happened next? 
9 
A. She took us upstairs. 
10 
Q. Okay-
11 
A: Into — it was upstairs through the bedroom to 
12 
the massage bathroom or —
13 
Q. Okay. 
14 
A. — whatever it was. 
15 
Q. All right. And did you ever — where was 
16 
Mr. Epstein in this period of time? 
17 
A. He wasn't there yet. • 
18 
Q. Okay. And what was in this massage 
19 
bathroom that you described? 
20 
A. Anything that I remember? 
21 
Q. Yeah. 
22 
A. Well, when you first walk in the door, there 
23 
was a minor to the right, and like a counter. And 
24 
there was, like, massage lotions, and then there was a 
25 
massage bed in the middle. 
Page 242 
1 
And then to the left was like a little 
2 
couch area with, like, a picture. i don't remember 
3 
if the picture was of a naked woman, but 1 remember 
4 
there was -- I've seen a — I remember seeing a 
5 
picture of a naked woman in his house. 1 don't know 
6 
if it was that specific one. And then there was a, 
a shower like in front. 
Q. Okay. Was the — what color was the 
9 
couch? 
10 
A. I don't remember. 
11 
Q. Okay. What occurred next? 
12 
A. And then Jeffrey Epstein walked in and he 
13 
removed his sweats and got into the shower. 
14 
Q. Okay. At that point in time, when you say 
15 
his sweats, did he have a top and bottom on? 
16 
A. I'm pretty sure he had a top and bottom on. 
17 
Yeah, he had a top and bottom on. 
18 
Q. And this is what time of year? 
19 
A. What time of year? 
20 
Q. Fall, summer? 
21 
A. I don't know. I was in Florida, so Florida is 
22 
always hot. 
23 
Q. Okay. So he had — well, your 
24 
recollection is he had sweat tops on. 
25 
A. Sweat — !don't know if it was asweat top, 
Page 243 
1 
but it was like the sweatpants. 
2 
Q. Okay. So you don't know if he had a sweat 
3 
top on? 
4 
A. No. 
5 
Q. What, did he have a shirt on? 
6 
A. Yes. 
7 
Q. Okay. All right. So you say he took 
8 
he took the — whatever he had on, you say he took 
9 
off. 
10 
A. Fully. 
11 
Q. Did he have shoes on? 
12 
A. I don't know. 
13 
Q. At that time back when this happened 
14 
describe his hair. 
15 
A. His hair? 
16 
Q. Uh-huh. 
17 
A. All I remember, it was like salt and pepper. 
18 
Q. Okay. 
19 
A. That's al remember. 
20 
Q. Do you remember how long it was at that 
21 
time? 
22 
A. No. 
23 
Q. Okay. And what happened next? 
24 
A. He got in the shower. He got fully naked and 
25 
got into the shower and he told us to undress. 
PROSE COURT REPORTING 
12 (Pages 240 to 243) 
AGENCY, INC. 
• 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-051-976-2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601.051-976-2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601.051.976.2934) 
1a30246a-bc9d-4107.90a1.6373e816de0d 
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Page 244 
1 
Q. Well, what, what exact words did he use, 
2 
if you recall? 
3 
A. Take off your clothes. 
4 
Q. That's all he said? 
5 
A. From what I remember, yes. 
6 
Q. Did he say, take off your clothes, or did 
7 
he say something different than that? 
8 
A. No. It was take off your clothes or get 
9 
undressed. It was along those lines. 
10 
Q. Or did he say undress down to your panties 
11 
and bra? 
12 
A. It could have been that, too. 
13 
Q. Have you ever told anybody in the past 
14 
that what he said was, undress down to your panties 
15 
and bra? 
16 
A. Have I told anybody in the past that —
17 
Q. Yep, that that's what Mr. Epstein said to 
18 
you. 
19 
A. Yes. 
20 
Q. Well, if you — and if you told them that 
21 
in the past, it was true at the time you told them 
22 
that? 
23 
A. Yes. 
24 
Q. That was your recollection of what had 
25 
occurred? 
1. 
2 
3 
4 
5 
6 
7 
8 
9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
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Page 246 
Q. Okay. 
A. His face. 
Q. Was it a full glass or just a partial 
glass? 
A. I don't remember. 
Q. Okay. And was there anybody else in the 
house at the time? 
A. In the house? 
Q. Yeah. 
A. I don't — 
=
a
n
s
w
e
r
e
d
 
the door. 
Q. Okay. 
A. So, I don't know if she still was in the 
house. I don't recallaiggan, that all' saw was 
Jeffrey Epstein and MI 
Q. When you first carne in the house —
A. Yes. 
Q. — did you either hear
r anybody else 
other than Jeff Epstein and 
A. Not that I remember, no. 
Q. And when you walked up this stairway and 
you went into this mom, was the door open or 
closed? 
A. His bedroom door? 
Q. Whatever room you were in. 
A. Well, what do you mean, when we were walking 
1 
A. Yes. 
2 
Q. So today, as you sit here today, is that 
3 
your recollection of what he said, was undress to 
4 
your panties and bra? 
5 
A. To your panties. 
6 
Q. Well, did he say panties and bra, or did 
7 
he just say panties? 
8 
A. I'm pretty sure it was panties because our 
9 
bras were off 
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Q. Well, you don't — do you not recall? 
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A. I wouldn't just take off my bra for no reason. 
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Q. Do you not recall? 
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A. I do not recall him specifically saying, take 
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off your bra, but I'm 90 percent positive that he did 
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because I wouldn't have done that. 
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Q. Okay. Now, you're not — are you positive 
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that you — well, strike that. 
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When he first said vitalism he said about 
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undressing, what did you and M. do? 
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A. We looked at each other like what's going on, 
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but we undressed. 
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Q. Okay. Now, he's in the shower, right, 
22 
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taking a shower? 
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A. Yeah, but it was glass. It was, like 
I 
24 
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know it was Rtass because I could see his head. 
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Page 245 
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Page 247 
into it? 
Q. Yeah, when you were up there in the room 
and he said, take, whatever you said, undress. 
A. Oh, the room we were in with the door. 
Q. Right 
A. Oh, it was closed. 
Q. Okay. Did — was the, was the door locked 
or unlocked? 
A. I have no idea. 
Q. What kind of door was it? 
A. I don't remember. 
Q. Okay. Did anything prevent you and II 
from walking right out of the same door that you 
came In? 
A. Fear. 
Q. Okay. But that was it, right? 
A. Yeah. 
Q. Nobody blocked your ability to exit? 
A. No. 
Q. When he said whatever he said about 
undressing, you could have said to him, wait, I 
don't want to do this, right? 
A. Yes, I could have. 
Q. Did you say anything at all to him in 
response to his request that you undress? 
13 (Pages 244 to 247) 
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Page 248 
A. No. 
2 
Q. Did you say anything to IM when he made 
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that statement to you? 
4 
A. I just looked at her vet): awkwardly. I didn't 
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say anything 
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Q. Did she say anything to you? 
A. Not that I remember. I don't remember. 
Q. Okay. So what did you and she do? 
A. We got undressed. 
Q. What do you mean by you got undressed? 
A. We took off our clothes to our panties. 
Q. Okay. Well, what were you wearing at the 
time? 
A_ I don't remember. 
Q. Did you have — I mean, do you remember
anything about what you were wearing? 
A. As in my clothes that I had on —
Q. Yeah. 
A. — before? I, I mean, I always wear jeans and 
a shirt, so I'm pretty positive I had jeans and a shirt 
on. 
Q. You're guessing that that's what you had 
on because you think that's what you usually wear? 
A. That's all I 
I don't wear shorts. I don't 
wear skirts, so it had to be jeans. 
Page 249 
Q. Do you remember what kind of bra and 
2 
panties you had on? 
3 
A. The color or anything? 
4 
Q. Anything about them. 
5 
A. The only thing that I could imagine that I was 
6 
wearing on my bottoms -- bra I don't know -- my bottoms 
was either boy shorts or a thong. 
Q. Well, which was it? 
A. I don't know. 
Q. What's boy shore? 
A. The ones that don't Billy cover, but they 
cover half of your butt. 
Q. But you don't recall which it was you were 
wearing? 
A. No. 
Q. And you don't kind, recall what kind of 
bra you had on? 
A. No. 
Q. Did you ever go without a bra or back then 
did you ever go anywhere without a bra? 
A. No. 
Q. Did you have big breasts or small breasts? 
A. 1 have, I have small breasts. 
Q. Okay. So your recollection is that while 
Mr. Epstein is in the shower, you and 
without 
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Page 250 
ever saying a word to each other, take all of 
whatever clothes you have on, and the only thing you 
have on are whatever panties you have on? 
A. Yes. 
Q. And your recollection is that you got 
undressed when you were first requested to by 
Mr. Epstein? 
A. Yes. 
Q. And your recollection, as you sit here 
today is you're definite and you're sure that you 
took your bra off? 
A. Yes. 
Q. Same with,? 
A. Yes. 
Have you ever told anybody, including 
Dr. 
or Dr. M 
that you don't believe you 
took your ra off? 
MR. MERMELST'EIN: Form, foundation. 
THE WITNESS: I don't recall. 
BY MR. LUTTIER: 
believe you did not take your brIli 
Q. Did you, in fact, tell Dr. 
that you 
MR. MERMELSTEIN: Form. 
THE WITNESS: No. 
Page 251 
BY MR. LIJTTIER: 
Q. You deny having told him that? 
A. I don't recall telling him I never took my bra 
off. 
Q. Okay. Well —
A. I said, at the point I didn't. 
Q. Is —
A. Like at a certain point, I didn't take my bra 
off. 
Q. Well, wait. I didn't understand your 
answer. 
A. At a certain point I didn't take my bra off. 
Q. Did you tell him that there was a point 
that you didn't take your bra off? 
A. I don't remember. You're — I'm confused. 
Q. Well, I don't want to confuse you. 
A. Well, I am. 
Q. You testified here that you have a 
specific recollection that upon the first request by 
Mr. Epstein, you and M., without saying a word to 
each other, took all ofrour clothes off except your 
panties, right? 
A. Yes. 
Q. Did you tell Dr. 
at any time that, in 
fact, you don't believe ybTrook your bra off? 
PROSE COURT REPORTING 
14 (Pages 248 to 251) 
AGENCY, INC. 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-051-976-2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkIns (601-061.976.2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-051-976-2934) 
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Page 252 
MR. MERMELSTEIN: Foundation. 
THE WITNESS: I don't recall. 
BY MR. LUTITER: 
Q. If you told him that, it was true when you 
told him that, right? 
MR. MERMELSTEIN: Form. 
THE WITNESS: I don't, I don't know. 
BY MR. LUTTIER: 
Q. . Well, what do you mean, you don't know if 
what you told him was true? 
MR. MERMELSTEIN: Form. 
THE WITNESS: No, I know what I told him, 
everything I told him was true. 
BY MR. LUITIER: 
Q. Okay. So whatever you said to him, you'll 
live by that? 
A. Yes. 
MR. MERMELSTEIN: Form. 
BYNULLIMMER: 
Q. And if it's different than what you said 
today, y
 go — you, you believe that what you 
told Dr.". was the truth? 
A. But it's not different. 
MR. MERMELSTEIN: Form. 
Page 253 
1 
BY MR. LUTTIER: 
2 
Q. Well, okay. Well, whatever it is. 
3 
Whatever it is, it is, right? 
4 
MR. MERMELSTEIN: Form. 
5 
THE WITNESS: Yes. 
6 
BY MR. LUTTIER: 
7 
Q. Okay. And wiaayou, would you stand by 
8. 
whatever you told Dr.M? 
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MR. MI3RMELSTEI&Eorm. 
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THE WITNESS: Dr...? 
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BY MR. LUITIER: 
12 . 
Q. Yeah 
13 
A. That's the second one. Yes. 
14 
Q. Okay. And it if what you told Dr.. 
15 
is different than what you said today, would yolu 
16 
with — would you agree that what you told Dr. El 
17 
was the more accurate statement? 
18 
. 
MR. MERMELSTEIN: Form. 
19 
THE WITNESS: Hold mg truth. 
20 
BY MR. LUTTIER: 
21 
t's not my question. If what you told 
22 
Dr. 
is different than what you said today, 
23 
would you agreetisthe more accurate statement is 
24 
what you told Dr. 
25 
MR. MERMELSTEIN: Form. 
Page 254 
1 
THE WITNESS: No. 
2 
BY MR. LUTITER: 
3 
Q. WelL you told him the trudi, right? 
4 
A. Yes. 
5 
Q. Well, what if what you told Dn. is 
6 
totally different than what you said today? thy. 
7 
would you, how would you justify that or explain 
8 
that? 
9 
MR. MERMEISTEIN: Form, lack of 
10 
foundation. 
11 
la WITNESS: You're saying what I told 
12 
Dr.
 is different than what I said today? 
13 
BY MR. LUTTIER: 
14 
Q. No. lossaying, if it nuns out that what 
15 
you told Dr.= is different than what you said 
16 
today, how, how do you justify the fact that you've 
17 
said two different things? 
18 
A. But I didn't. 
19 
Q. You're sum? 
20 
A. Yes. 
21 
Q. Well, let's assume, for purposes of this 
22 
question that yiyu did say something different: How 
23 
would you justify how it is today you would be 
24 
saying soothing different happened than what you 
25 
told Dr...? 
Page 255 
1 
MR. MERMELSTEIN: Form. 
2 
THE WITNESS: But I wouldn't. 
3 
BY MR. LUTTIER: 
4 
Q. No. I'm asking you what's known as a 
5 
hypothetical question which means I'm asking you, 
6 
for purpoo of this question, to assume what you 
7 
told Dr.= about this incident is different than 
8 
what you've testified to today. So, do you 
9 
understand what I mean by — 
10 
A. I — 
11 
Q. — a hypothetical question? 
12 
A. Yes, but —
13 
Q. Well, wait a minute. Let me — I want to 
14 
make sure you understand this. 
15 
A. Okay. 
16 
Q. So you have to assume for the purposes of 
17 
the question I'm about to ask that that's the, 
18 
that's the true facts. It's a hypothetical. 
19 
A. Okay. 
20 
Q. Okay. Now, so assuming that those are the 
21 
do you explain that what you told 
22 
tits 
different than what you said today? 
23 
MR. MERMELSTEIN: Fenn. 
24 
BY MR. LUTTIER: 
25 
O. If you have an explanation. 
I 
15 (Pages 252 to 255) 
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PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
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Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601.051.976.2934) 
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EFTA01076450

Page 256 
1 
A. But there — I don't, I don't, how can I make 
2 
an explanation of something that's not even true? 
3 
Q. So you can't explain any difference; is 
4 
that right? 
5 
A. Yes. 
6 
Q Okay. What kind of panties wash. 
7 
wearing? 
8 
A. I'm not sure. 
9 
Q. Did she have any on? 
10 
A. Yes. 
11 
Q. You don't know if it was a thong or 
12 
something else? 
13 
A. I don't recall. 
14 
Q. Don't know what color? 
15 
A. No. 
16 
Q. What kind of bra she had? 
17 
A. No. 
18 
Q. And while you guys were undressing, you 
19 
didn't say a single word to each other; is that 
20 
right? 
21 
A. Not that I recall. 
22 
Q. And you were perfectly comfortable just 
23 
taking all your clothes off down to your panties in 
24 
this stranger's house? 
25 
A. Not at all. 
Page 258 
1 
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Excuse me, sit Sony 
2 
to interrupt. I'm going to have to change the 
3 
tape, now. 
4 
MR. LUTT1ER: Okay. 
5 
S. 
COURT: Going off the record at 2:37 
6 
This marks the end of Tape 2. 
7 
(A brief recess was held.) 
THE VIDIQQRAPHER: We're back on the 
9 
record at 2:3811.b. This marks the beginning 
10 
of Tape 3. 
11 
BY MR. LUTHER: 
12 
Q. Okay. I want to take this slow. You said 
13 
that he asked what you did and you told him you went 
14 
to school; is that right? 
15 
A. Yes. 
16 
Q. Did you tell him what school that you went 
17 
to? 
18 
A. I don't recall. 
19 
Q. Well — and what were the next words that 
20 
he spoke to you? 
21 
A. 1 don't remember the exact next words, but I 
22 
know that, you know, he told us he was a brain 
23 
scientist, and that — along the lines that he would 
24 
help us with our careers, and we told him our ages. 
25 
Q. Well, wait a minute. I want to go slow. 
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Page 257 
Q. But you didn't do anything about it? 
A. We were young. 
Q. My answer -- let me finish my questions: 
You didn't do anything about it? 
A. No. 
Q. All right. What happens next? 
A. He gets out of the shower with a towel. And 
he lays on his massage table face down with his towel 
over his butt. 5. was massaging his upper back, and I 
was massaging his leg, feet and legs. 
Q. Well, before we get to massaging him, did, 
did he speak more words to you after he got out of 
the shower? 
A. While he was laying on the bed? 
Q. At any time after he got out of the 
shower, did he speak any words to you? 
A. Yes. 
Q. What did he say? 
A. It's not exact but he asked, you know, what we 
did, and we told him we went to school. And something 
about he would help us with our careers, that he was a 
brain scientist. And we told him we were in high school 
and we did tell him our age. 
Q. How do you recall that you told him your 
Page 259 
1 
We're talking about the next, the next words he 
2 
spoke to you. You say you don't recall what they 
3 
were. 
4 
A. !recall words that he said, but I can't tell 
5 
you word by word. 
6 
Q. Where was he when he spoke these words to 
7 
you? 
8 
A. He was on the massage bed, face down. 
9 
Q. So he got out of the shower and walked to 
10 
the massage bed without saying anything, and then he 
11 
began to talk to you once he laid down on the 
12 
massage bed; is that right? 
13 
A. Yes. 
14 
Q. Okay. And you said something about 
15 
careers. Did you tell him something about your 
16 
career? 
17 
A. I personally d
rtember that I did. 1 
18 
don't 
ber what 
. said to him. I don't recall 
19 
what M. was talking to him about 
20 
Q. gill, you're standing in the room right 
21 
next toM., right? 
22 
A. Yes, I was. 
23 
Q. You can recall what Mr. Epstein said, 
24 
but — 
25 
A. Yes — 
16 (Pages 256 to 259) 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-051.976-2934) 
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Page 260 
Q. — but you can't recall what
. said. 
A. Correct. 
Q. And you can't recall what you said? 
A. Correct 
Q. Okay. And the fact of the matter is, you 
don't have a specific recollection of the 
conversation with Mr. Epstein, do you? 
A. Late, to the tee, the exact words? 
Q. Yeah. 
A. No. 
Q. You, you're just guessing what was said, 
aren't you? 
A. I'm not guessing. 
MR MERMELSTEIN: Objection to form 
BY MR. LUITIER: 
Q. You're not guessing? 
A. I'm not guessing. 
Q. What are you doing then if you're not 
guessing? 
A. I'm summing up things that he said from what I 
remember. 
Q. What, what you think was said? 
MR. MERMELSTEEN: Objection, form. 
THE WITNESS: What I heard him say. 
Page 262 
1 
undress and he was naked. That's when it all seemed 
2 
odd. 
3 
Q. Now, have you ever heard the phrase, "18 
4 
will get you 20?" Have you ever heard that phrase? 
5 
A. What is it? 
6 
Q. "Eighteen will get you 20? 
7 
A. No. 
8 
Q. Did it occur to you at any time that now 
9 
you say you were what, 16 years old at the time of 
10 
this? 
11 
A. Yeah, 15,16. 
12 
Q. All right. Did it ever occur to you that 
13 
this was kind of a strange setup, a strange sort of 
14 
circumstances? 
15 
A. It was very strange. 
16 
Q. You knew all along, as soon as he said 
17 
something about taking your clothes off, that it was 
18 
a bad idea, didn't you? 
19 
A. Yes. 
20 
Q. You knew you ought to get out of there, 
21 
didn't you? 
22 
A. Yes. 
23 
Q. Okay. All right. Did.you tell him, wait 
24 
a minute, I don't want to take my clothes off? 
25 
A. No. 
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Page 261 
BY MR. LUMER: 
Q. Okay. An right So what was the next 
thing you heard him say? 
A. That's all I i bo-mber when we were having the 
conversation through the massage. 
Q All he said was something about, you know, 
that he was a brain scientist and, and what school 
you went to? 
A. No, not what school we went to. We told him 
we were in high school. 
Q. Well, before I asked you something about 
the school, and didn't I ask you what school you 
said you went to? 
A. No. 
Q. If I did — 
A. You did ask me before, but no, we didn't tell 
him what school we went to. He didn't ask. 
Q And you said you told him your age. 
A. Yes. 
Q. And do you have a specific recollection of 
telling him your age? 
A. Yes. 
Q. Did it seem odd to you this guy would be 
asking what your age was? 
A. I, it seemed odd to me when he told us to 
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Page 263 
Q. Did you tell him, wait a minute, I don't 
want to take my bra off? 
A. No. 
Q. Are you sure? 
A. Yes. 
Q. Did you tell him, I'm not comfortable 
taking my bra off? 
A. No. I don't —
Q. Are you sure? 
A. Pm pretty positive. It's, I mean, it's not 
. 100 percent. I don't recall every little detail. 
Q. So you might have said it? 
A. I might have. I don't recall exactly. 
Q. And if you said it, that means you didn't 
take your bra off, doesn't it? 
A. No, but l did take my bra off. 
Q. Did you ever tell anybody that you told 
him you didn't feel comfortable taking your bra off? 
MR. MER/vIELS7EIN: Form. 
1"HE WITNESS: I don't recall. 
BY MR. LUTHER: 
Q. Okay. All right. So did Mr. Epstein — 
what's the next thing you recall Mr. Epstein saying 
to you? 
A. Saying to me? I don't remember anything else 
17 (Pages 260 to 263) 
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Page 264 
1 
said, to be honest with you. 
2 
Q. At all? 
3 
A. Well, until he flipped over and started 
4 
touching himself. 
5 
Q. Okay. So, so you and.. began doing 
6 
what? 
7 
A. From when be flipped over? 
8 
Q. No, when you — you say he came and laid 
9 
down on the, on the, the massage table. You say he 
10 
put a towel on him? 
11 
A. He put a towel on his butt. 
12 
Q. Okay. And, and what color was that towel, 
13 
you said? 
14 
A. 1 never said that the towel was colored. 
15 
Q. What color was it? 
3.6 
A. I don't know. 
17 
Q. And what !dad of towel was it? Was it a 
18 
big bath towel, a small towel? 
19 
A. I don't recall. 
20 
Q. Okay. And, and your recollection is he 
21 
laid face down on the massage table? 
22 
A. Yes. 
23 
Q. Okay. And did, did he give you any 
24 
instruction about the massage? 
25 
A. I don't remember — 
Page 265 
1 
Q. So, so —
2 
exactly. 
3 
Q And what did you and.. know to do? 
4 
A. Give him a massage. That was what, that's 
5 
what we were there for. 
6 
Q. But you had never given a massage before, 
7 
right? 
8 
A. Well, to my friends, but it wasn't — I'm not 
9 
a massage, you know, a massage therapist. 
10 
Q. So what did you, what part of his body did 
11 
you start rubbing? 
12 
A. Iris feet and his legs. 
13 
Q. And why did you decide, decide to do that? 
14 
A. Because it was the furthest away from him, so 
15 
that's where I went. 
16 
Q. Well, did he ask you to do that? 
17 
A. Not that I recall. 
18 
Q. Okay. And what did ■. do? 
19 
A. She massaged his back. 
20 
Q. And why did she start there? 
21 
A. Maybe because I took his feet and legs first 
22 
Q. Did he ask her to? 
23 
A. Not that 1 recall. 
24 
Q. Okay. So, for some period of time, you 
25 
began to massage him? 
/flirt.. 
Page 266 
1 
A. Yes. 
2 
Q. Did you say — speak any words toe. 
3 
during this? 
4 
A. No. 
5 
Q. And at the time that you're beginning this 
6 
massage, your testimony is you and she are standing 
7 
there in your panties. 
8 
A. Yes. 
9 
Q. Got no neither one of you have your 
10 
bras on. 
11 
A. Correct. 
12 
Q. Okay. And then what's the next thing you 
13 
recall happening? 
14 
A. The next thing I real' happening is he 
15 
flipped over and started touching himself. 
16 
Q. What do you mean by touching himself? 
17 
A. Jacking off with his penis. 
18 
Q. You said when he laid down face down on 
19 
the table, that he had a towel over him. 
20 
A. Yes, he did. 
21 
Q. Okay. What was the towel over? 
22 
A Ills butt. 
23 
Q. All right. Now, when he rolled over, what 
24 
happened to the towel? 
25 
A. It was gone. 
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Page 267 
Q. Well, but what happened to it? Did, did 
somebody remove it? 
A. I, Iclikt touch it. 
Q. DidIM. touch it? 
A. No. 
Q. Did Mr. Epstein touch it? 
A. I'm guessing so. 
Q. Well, you're guessing? 
A. I know for a fact he removed his towel. 
Q. Well, how do yo 
ow fora fact he did? 
A. Because me and... didn't do it. 
Q. So you'
oncluding, because you don't 
recall you and M. doing it, that Mr. Epstein did 
it? 
A. Correct. 
Q. And you don't recall seeing Mr. Epstein do 
it though? 
A. No, because it was a shock to me that he 
turned around and started playing with his penis. 
Q. Did he — do you have any recollection at 
all about what happened to that towel? 
A. I have no idea. I wasn't paying attention to 
the towel. 
Q. So, you don't know if somebody took it 
off, it fell off. You don't know what happened. 
18 (Pages 264 to 267) 
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Page 268 
1 
A. No. 
2 
Q. Okay. At the time that he turns over, 
3 
where are you standing? 
4 
A. I'm still at his feet. 
5 
Q. You were at the feet And.. is up at, 
6 
at -- by his shoulders? 
7 
A. Yes. 
8 
Q. Are you both standing on the same side of 
9 
the massage table? 
10 
A. She was 
like, if you're looking at the 
11 
massage table from where the shower is, and the front 
12 
door is right there, she's on this side, on the right 
13 
side, and I was by the feet. 
14 
Q. Okay. So — and, and up to thisspitt in 
15 
time, you haven't spoken any words to 
? 
16 
A. About the situation? 
17 
Q. Yeah, about anything. 
18 
A. Not that I recall. 
19 
Q. Okay. So he flips over. 
20 
A. He flips over. 
21 
Q. Okay. And, and what occurs, then? 
22 
A. He starts playing with his penis. 
23 
Q. Okay. And, now, you're standing at his 
24 
feet, right? 
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A. Yeah. 
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Page 269 
Q. So you have a clear view of this? 
A. Yeah. 
Q. Now, at that point in time, you've seen 
his entire body; is that right? 
A Correct. 
Q. Okay. Tell me what, if any, tattoos you 
observed on Mr. Epstein. 
A. 'didn't see any tattoos. I wasn't — if he 
has any, I didn't see any. 
Q. Okay. 
A. I don't know. 
Q. All right. Now, when you say Mr. Epstein 
began to, to — what did you say he began to do? 
A. Playing with himself. 
Q. Play with himself. Did you observe that 
or were you concluding that he was doing that based 
on something you saw? 
A. No, he was doing that. 
Q. Okay. And did you say anything to him at 
that time? 
A. No. I don't remember. I honestly don't 
remember if I said anything. I was in shock. 
Q. Okay. And how did that evidence itself? 
What did you do that, that, that would evidence to 
anybody that You were in shock? 
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Page 270 
A. I — mentally I was just thinking to myself, 
like, what is going on. 
k
And what, and what were your observations 
A. I wasn't even — I was --jggiestly, I,1 
wasn't even paying attention to... I was — I didn't 
know what to do. 
Q. Did you say anything to her? 
A. At that certain time, no. I was --
Q. Did she say anything to you? 
A. No, it just — no. 
Q. Did either you or she say anything to 
Mr. Epstein? 
A. Not that' — at that point, at that moment? 
Q. Yeah. 
A. Not that I recall. 
Q. Did either of you say, were uncomfortable 
with this, or we, we want to slop? 
A. Not at that point 
Q. Did either of you say you want to leave? 
A. Not at this point. 
Q. Did either of you walk towards the door? 
A. Not at this point, no. 
Q. Okay. Whaljappened next? 
A. And he toldia. that he wants her to play 
Page 271 
with his nipples. 
Q. Okay. So did she do that? 
A. Yes, she did. 
Q. Okay. What happened next? 
A. I walked behind her, like, I stood behind her. 
Q. Okay. 
A. She was doing it and I stood behind her while 
he was playing with himself. 
Q. Okay. So you're not touching him at all 
at that point. 
A. I wasn't, no. 
Q. Okay. So what happens next? 
A. So I, you know, was just standing there? And 
he's playing with himself, and she — you know,,bf's. 
you know,. 
Q. Did 
. say anything? 
A. I don't remember. I, I was in shock. 
Q. Did you say anything? 
A. Not at that moment, no. 
Q. Okay. What happened ne
A. So he was doing that with M., and then he 
started moving towards 
Q. When you say, ' 
" what do you 
mean? 
19 (Pages 268 to 271) 
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Page 272 
1 
A. With her, I wasn't certain because I was 
2 
behind her. 
3 
Q. So you couldn't see. 
4 
8 
7 
9 
' A. Okay. So then he started touching me. 
A. I couldn't see. 
5 
A. But 
do you want me to go to the next? 
Q. An right 
6 
Q Sure.
 
Q. 
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A. Yes. 
Q. With what? 
A. With his hand. 
Q. pky. And this is while you're standing 
behind...? 
A. Yes. 
Q. Okay. 
A. It was.., and then I was behind kith but I 
don't know how to explain it. Like, this is
 . This 
is me, and he was reaching around. 
Q. Okay. 
A. I was, like, right behind her. 
Q. What happened next? 
Page 273 
A. I dent recall saying that 
Q If you told them that, when you told them, 
it was true, right? 
MR. MERMELSTEIN: Form. 
THE WITNESS: When I — yeah, I told the 
truth, Yes. 
BY MR. LIJITIER: 
Q. Let, let's be honest Dr. 
asked 
you all about this incident, didn't he? 
A. Yes. 
Q. And you told Dr. 
that, that 
Mr. Epstein did not put his hands inside your 
panties, didn't you? 
MR. MERMELSTEIN: Form. I, I'm 
Page 274 
1 
object generally to the paraphrasing ca. 
2 
You're not showing her a transcript 
3 
MR. LUTHER: No, no speaking objections. 
4 
Just start and state your form objection. 
5. 
MR. MERMELSTEIN: But you keep doing the 
6 
some thing. 
7 
MR. LIMIER: I know. 
8 
MR MERMELSTEIN: Objection to form. 
9 
BY MR. LUTHER: 
10 
Q. That's what you told Dr... 
was he did 
11 
not put his hands in your panties, didn't you? 
12 
A. No. 
13 
Q. You didn't say that to him? 
14 
A. Not that I recall, no. 
15 
Q. Well, which is it? You didn't say it to 
16 
him, or you don't recall saying it to him? 
17 
A. No, I didn't say Liliggp. 
18 
Q. Okay. So if Dr. IM 
says that's what 
19 
you said, how do you rectify that? 
20 
MR. MERMELSTEIN: Form. 
21 
THE WITNESS: How would I rectify 
22 
something I didn't say? 
23 
BY MR. LUTTLER: 
24 
Q. Okay. You told DM that, that 
25 
Mr. Epstein did not put his hands in your panties, 
Page 21 5 
1 
didn't you? 
2 
A. No. 
3 
MR. MERMELSTEIN: Form. 
4 
BY MR. LUTTIER: 
Q. Okay. All rigalislin 
years later 
A. Yeah, he tried to, yes. 
9 
Q. Uh, uh, uh. You say he tried to, or he 
10 
did? 
11 
20 (Pages 272 to 275 
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Page 276 
1 
Q. Did you pull away? 
2 
A. 1 pushed him away. 
3 
Q. Ok• 
nd and wh 
ned next? 
9 
10 
11 
A. Not that I recall, no. 
Q. Well, you would recall that, wouldn't you? 
A. 
Page 277 
 A. No. 
( 
12 
Q. When you say, "using it," what do you 
13 
mean? 
14 
A. It was, it was like a back massager vibrator. 
15 
Q. What color was it? 
16 
A. I think it was white. 
17 
Q. How big was it? 
• 
18 
A. It was like this, big. It was like, it looked 
19 
like a back massager, like it didn't look like --
20 
Q. Describe it. 
21 
A. It had like a white head on it. 
22 
Q. Okay. 
23 
A. And then like a body that you would hold it 
24 
by. It vibrated. 
25 
Q. Was it one 11
Sed 
into the wall? 
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A. I don't ;mow. I don't recall. 
Q. And when did you first see it? 
A. Well, !first noticed it when he started 
he 
was going to start using it, when he pulled it out. 
Q. Did he put— did he pick it up from some 
place? 
A. Yeah, picked it up on the right, or, like, 
the, you know, mirror and the desk was. 
Q. Off a countertop? 
A. I don't know if 
ark II 
in ad 
s was on the outside of her 
panties? 
A. I don't know because I was behind her so —
Q. You, you couldn't really see what was 
going on? 
A. No, 
with N. 
Q. Did./ say anything? 
A. Not that — I don't remember. 
Q. Did you hear her say, don't do that? 
1 
2 
3 
Page 279 
A. I don't recall what.. said. I was in 
shock I —
Q. Okay. What, what happened next? 
Q. When you say, "pulled you around," what do 
9 
you mean? 
10 
A. Like, he grabbed my arm and pulled me around. 
11 
Q. Well, did he ask you to come over, move 
12 
from where you were? 
13 
A. N he 
can ou lease 
over. 
er. 
14 
15 
Q. Did he, did he pull you with such force 
16 
that he left any marks on your body, for example? 
17 
A. No. 
18 
Q. Any bruising or anything like that? 
19 
A. No. 
• 
20 
Q. Okay. Did you say anything to him when 
21 
he, to use your words, pulled you over? 
22 
A. I don't recall. I don't remember. 
23 
Oka . What ha 
ne
s
,
,i
mmi
 ahWhTnext? 
24 
■ 
25
21 (Pages 276 to 279) 
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Page 280 
1 
Q. Did you say anything to him when he 
2 
started doing that? 
3 
A. I told him I didn't feel comfortable, and he 
4 
lcept telling me to just let it go. 
5 
Q. Did, did you pull away? 
6 
A. There was a couple of times that I pushed 
7 
away. I was just, I don't feel comfortable, not that I 
8 
went all the, you know, all the way back in a corner, 
9 
but I did push him, and l said, I don't feel 
10 
comfortable. 
11 
Q. Okay. 
12 
A. And he kept persisting and doing it and kept 
13 
saying the same thing, lust let it go. 
17 
Q. While he's sitting on the table? 
18 
A. Yeah. Ile was on the table, like leaned over. 
19 
Q. Okay. And what did you say? 
20 
A. 1 kept saying, I don't feel comfortable. 
21 
Q. Did you, did you eventually pull away and 
22 
ask him to stop? 
23 
A. I, I pulled away a couple of times, and then 
24 
at one point a thought, a thought ran through my mind, 
25 
if Ijust get this over with I could leave. 
1 
2 
3 
4 
5 
Page 281 
Q. Did you ever ask him to stop? 
A. I just kept telling him I didn't feel 
comfortable. 1 don't know if I told him to stop or not. 
Q. O 
What hay.ened next? 
A 
M
,
 
did you just stand there? 
22 
A. For a little bit, I did. 
23 
24 
25 
Q. For how long? 
A. A couple of seconds. 
Q. Okay. So for two seconds, he took a, 
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Page 2F^ 
A. Yes, that's... 
Q. Okay. So for a couple of seconds he's 
doing that, and during that couple of seconds, 
you're saying to him, Pm uncomfortable. 
A. Yes. 
Q. Does he stop after a couple of seconds? 
A. No, he.
A. I have no idea. It seemed like forever. 
Q. It was a matter of seconds, right? 
A. No. A matter of seconds is when I let —
like, sort of like just let it go and just ignored the 
fact that, I was, you know, in this situation. 
Q. Okay. If you let it go fora matter of 
seconds; what did you do after the seconds passed? 
A. What do you mean? 
Q. Well, you said you let it go for a matter 
of seconds. You must have done something, then, 
when that, that time period of seconds expired. 
What did you do? 
Page 283 
A. While I was letting him do it? 
Q. Yeah, did you pull away? 
A. I was just sit — I was just sitting there 
letting him do it. I wasn't trying to say stop at some 
Pant 
Q. So, you let him do it for, what you 
described as, a matter of seconds? 
A. Yes. 
Q. All right. And what did you do? 
A. Then, !kept, I just — I was like, !can't do 
this. I don't feel comfortable. 
Q. And did he stop? 
A. No, he kept going u 
9 
,r•  II 
I 
I 
A. I don't remember how ►on a time. 
22 (Pages 280 to 283) 
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Page 284 
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Q. A matter of a few mo 
o 
2 
A. I don't know. 1 mean. 
4 
A matter of — 
5 
Q. How long a while? 
6 
A. Huh? 
7 
Q. How long a while, a minute or two? 
A. No. 
9 
Q. First he did something to.., according 
10 
to you, right? 
11 
A. Yes, but I'm saying since the vibrator came 
12 
out of the drawer. 
13 
Q. Was it less than a minute? 
14 
A. Or whatever it came out of. It was age than 
15 
a couple of minutes, because he used it onM. first 
16 
and then he used it on me. 
17 
Q. How about you? It was less than a minute 
18 
on you, wasn't it? 
19 
A. No. I mean, I don't know the exact time, but 
20 
it wasn't less than a minute because —
21 
Q. How do you know it wasn't less than a 
22 
minute if you don't know the exact time? 
23 
A. Well, to me it seemed like a while. 
24 
Q. It seemed like a while, but 
25 
A. To me it did. 
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Page 286 
Q. Did you ever —
A. —just let it go. 
Q. Did you ever just say no and walk t4 
steps away? 
A. I said I don't feel comfortable, and I took a 
step back, yes. 
Q. Well, full steps so he couldn't reach you. 
A. No, I was still an ann's length. 
Q. Did you ever step back beyond his reach 
and say I don't want to do this? 
A. No. 
swirl 
A. No. 
Q. Okay. So at some point he stops? 
A. Yes. 
Q. You don't know how long it is? 
A. No. 
Q. Okay. What happens next? 
A. And then be finishes him' tlf off. 
Q. When you, when you say "finishes himsel f 
off," what do you mean? 
A. That he ejaculated. 
Q. Did you actually see him ejaculate? 
A. Yes, I did. 
1 
2 
3 
4 
5 
6 
7 
8 
Page 285 
Q. — in fact, it could have been less than a 
minute, couldn't it? 
MR. MERMELSTEIN: Fonn. 
THE WITNESS: No, definitely not 
BY MR. LUTTIER: 
Q. Well, how long was it? 
A. I don't 
rightIMMINIME 
11 
Q. All right. So there came a time when he 
12 
stopped, right? 
13 
A. Yeah. 
14 
Q. Did you — did there 
15
some ooint in time, 
He didn't pull you back. 
!23 
You could have just stepped back, couldn't you? 
24 
A. He would, like, grab the side of me and pull 
25 
me close and --
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Page 287 
Q. Okay. And.. is standing next to you? 
A. Yes. 
Q. And did you say anything to her? 
A. I think I told her in her ear, like, we need 
to get out of here. 
Q You said that to.. 
at this point? 
A. Yeah. 
Q. Have you ever, prior to today, told that 
to anybody that you made that statement? 
A. Yes. 
Q. Okay. Who have you told that to? 
A. Anybody I told the story to. 
to
if you said it if you told the story 
A. Yes. 
Q. — and if you told to its you've told 
both of ti 
that what you said at that point in 
time to 
. was we've got to get out of here? 
A. Yes. 
Q. Okay. What did she say to you? 
A. She just — I mean, he was still right there, 
so she just sort of like nodded her head, like, yeah, I 
know. 
Q. Well, you said this audibly so she could 
hear it. 
23 (Pages 284 to 287) 
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Page 288 
A. It wasn't, it wasn't like, hey, we need to get 
out of here. It was more like we need to get out of 
here. 
Q. 
that? 
A. He didn't hear me. He was —
Q. How do you know he didn't hear you? 
A. — cleaning himself. Because he didn't. 
Q. Okay. What happened next? 
A. He cleaned himself up, and then he gave us 
money and said if you bring back a girl for a massage 
for $200, I'll give you 400. 
Q. Well, when you, when you say he gave you 
money, what did he give you? 
A. $200. 
Q. $100 bills? 
A. Bills, yes. 
Q. TWo $100 bills? 
A. I don't recall if it was — what kind it was. 
I don't know. I just wanted to get out of there. 
Q. So you don't know what the denominations 
of the bills were? 
A. No, I don't. 
Q. And did he give you money and... money? 
A. Yes. 
Well, what did Epstein say when you said 
Page 290 
1 
Q. Okay. And what didfl. say? 
2 
A. I don't remember. 
3 
Q. Okay. But you were standing right there, 
4 
right? 
5 
A. Yes, but I don't remember. 
6 
Q. All right. So what happened next? 
7 
A. So then we left. 
8 
Q. What was the total amount of time you were 
9 
up there in this — doing this massage on 
10 
Mr. Epstein? And by that I mean the total time you 
11 
were up in this room that you've described. 
12 
A. The -- from the massage and everything? 
13 
Q. Yeah. From the time you walked in and, 
14 
and he first asked you to, you say, take your 
15 
clothes off, to the point in time that you walked 
16 
out that door that you came in. 
17 
A. I don't have the exact time frame, because I 
18 
didn't sit and time it. But 1 know from -- the massage 
19 
was 45 minutes to an hour. And I don't know how I know 
20 
that. I don't know if the person that told me that it 
21 
was only a 45-minute or an hour massage, but I know the 
22 
massage was at least 45 minutes. 
23 
Q. Okay. And, and how long did it take 
24 
Mr. Epstein to masturbate and ejaculate out of this 
25 
45 minutes? 
Page 289 
3. 
Q. And what did you-all say when he gave you 
2 
this money? 
3 
A. Nothing. 
Q. And you're standing there naked at this 
5 
time? 
6 
A. I don't remember at that point if we were 
7 
dressed a not dressed. I don't i 
8 
Q. Okay. And what happened next? 
9 
A. So, then I told you what he said about you 
10 
bring a girl, rit give you 400. 
11 
Q. Okay. What did you say? 
12 
A. No. 
13 
Q. Okay. So just told him, no. You didn't 
14 
have any problem telling saying. no to him, did you? 
15 
A. With that statement When he's sitting there 
16 
sexually touching you, ifs a little bit uncomfortable 
17 
when you're that age. 
18 
Q. You didn't have any problems saying to 
19 
him — when he said if you bring a girl III give 
20 
you $400, you didn't have any problem saying to him, 
21 
no. 
22 
A. Yes, because he gave me an option. 
23 
Q. Okay. And so you said, no, I'm not going 
24 
to do that? 
25 
A. Yes. 
1 
A. 
2 
Q. 
3 
A. 
4 
Q. 
5 
A. 
6 
Q. 
7 
first? 
Page 291 
Forty-five minutes wasn't including that part. 
Was not? 
Was not. 
Oh, that was in addition to the massage? 
Yes. 
So what did you do, finish the massage 
8 
A. We gave him the massage, yes. 
9 
Q. Okay. 
10 
A. And that's when he flipped over and it wasn't 
11 
a massage anymore. 
12 
Q. Okay. So the total amount of time you're 
13 
in the room is something between 45 and 60 minutes. 
14 
A. For the massage. The massage at least was 45 
15 
minutes. 
16 
Q. Listen to my question. What is your best 
17 
estimate of the total amount of time that you were 
18 
up there in this room with Mr. Epstein? 
19- 
A. Total? I don't know. 
20 
Q. Less than an hour? 
21 
A. No. 
22 
Q. More than an hour? 
23 
A. Yeah. 
24 
Q. Well, how much more than an hour? 
25 
A. I don't know. 
24 (Pages 288 to 291 ; 
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Page 292 
• 
Q. Fact of the matter is you don't know how 
2 
long you were there, do you? 
3 
A. No. 
4 
Q. Okay. Less than an hour and five minutes? 
5 
A. I have no idea. 
6 
Q. Okay. That's the truth of the matter, is 
7 
you don't know how long you were there, right? 
8 
A. Right 
9 
Q. Okay. And did — who left the room first? 
10 
A. Out of all three of us? 
11 
Q. Yeah. 
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A. I don't recall. It was probably — I man, 
13 
I'm not going to say because I don't know. 
14 
Q. Well, when did you and — did you and.. 
15 
get dressed again? 
16 
A. Yeah. 
17 
Q. When did you do that? 
18 
A. I don't remember. 
19 
Q. Did you have any discussion while you were 
20 
getting dressed? 
21 
A. No, became I'm sure he was in the room. He 
22 
didn't leave the room again. 
23 
Q. So, now you do know who, who was in the 
24 
room when you were getting dressed. 
25 
A. We all three were in the room. I said I don't 
Page 294 
A. Where the front door was. I don't recall if 
2 
he walked us all the way down the stairs or halfway 
3 
down, and there was the door. 
4 
Q. Okay. Did you ever see this.. 
person 
5 
again? 
6 
A. No. 
7 
Q. Did you see anybody else in the house? 
8 
A. I don't — no, I just left 
9 
Q. What did you do when you got to the door? 
10 
A. I called a taxi. 
it 
Q. So what — how did you call the taxi? 
12 
A. With my phone. 
13 
Q. Through the cellphone? 
14 
A. Yes. 
15 
Q. Cellphone you brought? 
16 
A. Yeah. 
17 
Q. Did you know the phone number? 
18 
A. Yes. I had the guy's card from the taxi. 
19 
Q. Okay. So you dial on your cellphone and 
20 
call the cab? 
21 
A. Yes. 
22 
Q. All right. So how long did it take for 
23 
the cab to get there? 
24 
A. He knew that we were going to leave. He knew 
25 
that we were going to give a massage and we were going 
Page 293 
1 
remember when we got dressed. 
2 
Q. So he's in the room while you get dressed, 
3 
right? 
4 
A. Yes. 
5 
Q. You and. 
don't have any conversation? 
6 
A. No. 
7 
Q. Are you getting dressed before or after he 
8 
gives you the money? 
9 
A. I don't remember. 
10 
Q. What happens after you get dressed? 
11 
A. I don't know if we took the money, if it was 
12 
before or after, but we left. 
13 
Q. Is 
was Mr. Epstein dressed at the time 
14 
you left? 
15 
A. I don't remember. 
16 
Q. Was be still in the room when you left? 
17 
A. No, I think he walked us out. 
18 
Q. Was he clothed? 
19 
A. I'm pretty sure. 
20 
Q. What clothes did he put on? 
21 
A. I have no idea. 
22 
Q. Okay. All right. So when you say he 
23 
walked you out, where did he take you? 
24 
A. He took us down the stairs. 
25 
Q. All ri 
t To what? 
PROSE COURT REPORTING 
Page 295 
1 
to leave — well, he didn't know we were going to give a 
2 
massage, but we told lim — 
3 
Q. Right 
4 
A. — we wouldn't belong, so he said he mould 
5 
wait down the street. 
6 
Q. Okay. So bow long did it take for the cab 
7 
to get there? 
8 
A. Couple manna maybe. 
9 
Q. Okay. And you waited in the house with 
10. 
Mr. Epstein? 
11 
A. No, we waited 
12 
Q. Okay. 
13 
A. Outside of the gates. 
14 
Q. And, and when ymwemommde, did you 
15 
have a conversation with 
16 
A. I don't recall the conversation right outside, 
17 
when we first got outside. 
18 
. Q. When dorm recall 
do you recall 
19 . 
getting in the cab with her? 
20 
A. Getting in, yes. 
21 
Q. Do you recall saying anything to her when 
22 
you got in the ode 
23 
A. I don't recall the exact conversation. I know 
24 
we were both disgusted. 
25 
Q. Well, how do you kno2;piyou were disgusted? 
25 (Pages 292 to 295) 
AGENCY',. 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601.051-976-2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601.051-976-2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601.051-976.2934) 
1a30246a-bc9d-4107-90a1-6373e816de0d 
EFTA01076460

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Page 296 
A. Because look what just happened. How can 
anybody not see that? 
Q. What did you say to her? 
A. I just said, I can't believe what happened. 
Q. What did she say to you? 
A. I know. And that's all -
Q. 
A. 
Q. 
So it was a horrible experience? 
Yes. 
Traumatic experience? 
A. Yes. 
Sixty minutes of pure trauma? 
A. Yes. 
Q. One that you would never want to replay 
again? 
A. Yes. 
Q. And so as a result of that, did you ever 
go back to Mr. Epstein's? 
A. Yes. 
Q. Even though it was a traumatic experience? 
A. Yes, because I didn't know that they were 
going there. 
Q. Okay. Did you ever see Mr. Epstein again? 
A. Yes. 
Q. Him, personally. 
A. Yes. 
Q. 
Page 297 
1 
Q. When did you see him again? 
2 
A. Second time. 
3 
Q. And, and how did you get there the second 
4 
time? 
5 
A. The second tit.
 and
 were going. 
6 
Q. Again, this is — 
.'s the person that 
7 
had been there the first time --
8 
A. Yes. 
9 
Q — that was thoroughly disgusted with what 
1O 
happened. 
11' 
A. Yes, Imam, I'm speaking for myself here. 
12 
Q. VAIL' a minute. Did I understand you to 
13 
say that M. said to you when you got in the cab 
14 
that she couldn't believe what it was and that she 
15 
was disgusted? 
16 
A. I said that. 
17 
MR, MERMELSTEIN: Objection, form. 
18 
MR. LUTTIER: Did — well --
19 
THE WITNESS: I said I, I can't believe 
20 
what just happened. And she said, I know. 
21 
That's all I said. 
22 
BY MR. LUITIER: 
23. 
Q. Did she, did she appear to be upset at 
24 
all? 
25 
A. I was,
 worried about myself.. 
PROSE 
Page 298 
1 
wasn't --
2 
Q. Did she appear to be upset at all? 
3 
A. I don't remember. 
4 
Q. Did she cry? 
5 
A. No. 
6 
Q. Did she say anything to you other than, "I 
7 
know"? • 
8 
A. I don't recall. 
9 
4 Did you say anything more to her to 
10 
indicate any — what your emotions were at the time? 
11 
A. I don't remember. 
12 
Q. Did you-all enjoy the money? 
13 
A. The money? 
14 
Q. Yeah. 
15 
A. Who doesn't enjoy money. 
16 
So you don't recall any comment 
17 
thatfl. 
made when she got in the cab, right? 
18 
A. Yes. 
19 
Q. And you don't recall any comments you made 
20 
in the cab ride from Mr. Epstein's to — back to 
21 
wherever you went. 
22 
A. Yeah, I don't even remember where we went. 
23 
Q. I was — that's my next question. Where 
24 
did you go in the cab? 
25 
A. It was either back to my house orig.'s 
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Q. Were you crying? 
Page 299 
house. I think it was my house, butIm not sure. 
Q. How long of a drive was that? 
A. A while. We went from his house in Palm Beach 
to Wellington. 
Q. Can you tell me anything about the 
conversation in the car between you and. on the 
ride back? 
A. No, I don't remember.. 
Q. can you describe her in any manner'? 
A. No. 
Q. Was there music playing in the cab? 
A. I don't know. 
Q. Did you say anything to the cab driver? 
A. Not that I know of. 
Q. Did be say anything to you? 
A. Not that II ranember, no: 
Q. Did you-all make any calls on your 
eellphones? 
A. I don't remember. 
Q. Did the cab driver ask you if there was 
anything wrong with you? 
A. No: 
Q. Was
. crying? 
A. No. 
26 (Pages 296 to 2 99) 
COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
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Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-051.976.2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601.051-978.2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-051.976-2934) 
1a30246a-bc9d-4107.90a1-6373e816de0d 
EFTA01076461

Page 300 
A. No. 
2 
Q. All right. Do you know whether or not 
3 
you-all made jokes on the way back to the -
4 
A. We didn't make jokes because we were in shock. 
5 
Q. Well--
6 
A. lyres in shock. 
7 
Q. if you don't know what was said 
I mean, 
8 
ifs.ftne to tell me, if you don't know what was 
9 
said, you don't know what was said. 
10 
A. Yeah, I don't know what was said. 
11 
Q. So, it would be a fair statement you just 
12 
don't have any recollection at an of what happened 
13 
with the ride back? 
14 
A. Basically, yes. 
15 
Q. Okay. And you don't know if you went to 
16 
your house or her house? 
17 
A. Correct. 
18 
Q. Who did you next see after you got dropped 
19 
off either at your house or her house? 
20 
A. I don't remember. 
21 
Q. And this was --
22 
A. I don't remember. 
23 
Q. This was a Saturday or Sunday? 
24 
A. I don't know exactly what day it was. It was 
25 
a day l didn't have school. 
Page 302 
1 
A. I mean, I don't know. 
2 
Q. So there's a second incident that comes 
3 
up. 
4 
A. Yes. ' 
5 
Q. And it's you ma/. and was itM.? 
6 
A. MI. 
7 
MR. LUTHER: Okay. l'm going to take a 
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little break and go to the bathroom. 
WE WITNESS: Okay. Me, too. 
HayIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record at 
3:09M. 
(A brief recess was held.) 
7HE VIDEDQ. RAMER: We're back on the 
record at 3:18ln. 
BY MR. LUTHER: 
Q. Okay. There, there came a, another 
occasion when you went to Mr. Epstein's house; is 
that right? 
A. Yes. 
Q. Do you remember how long that was after 
the first time? 
A. No. 
Q. Was it a matter of months, years? 
MR. MERMELSTEIN: I think that this has 
been asked and answered. 
Page 301 
1. 
Q. All right So did you tell your mom or 
2 
your dad? 
3 
A. No. 
4 
Q. Did you call the police? 
5 
A. No. 
6 
Q. Did you tell anybody? 
7 
A. No. 
8 
Q. All right. But at some point in time, you 
9 
hooked up within. and your other friend and you 
10 
went back to Epstein's; is that right? 
11 
A. Yes. 
12 
Q. Okay. And, now, I just want to make sure 
13 
I understand this. Did you get the impression from 
14 
anything that.. said or did that she appeared to 
15 
be at all upset about this incident? 
16 
A. The time that we —
17 
Q. Yeah. 
18 
A. I, I don't remember. You mean, like, from 
19 
that to the second time that we went? 
21 
Q. Yeah. 
21 
A. I mean, I don't !mow. 
22 
Q. Did you, did you, you and she ever discuss 
23 
it? 
24 
A. I don't =all that, no. 
24 
25
.
a 
25 
Page 303 
1 
MR. LUTHER: Well, if I do, I don't 
2 
recall it, but you can tell me what the answer 
3 
was. I will accept your representation. 
4 
MR. MERMELSTEIN: You can, you can answer 
5 
it again. 
6 
773E WITNESS: I don't, I don't know. I 
7 
don't remember what — 
8 
BY MR. LUTHER: 
9 
Q. Do you, do you have any — what's your 
10 
best recollection of the amount of time between 
11 
these two visits? 
12 
A. It was — I mean, it wasn't that far after. I 
13 
know it wasn't years after. It could have been weeks or 
14 
months, but it wasn't... 
15 
Q. Okay. Your best recollection is, it was 
16 
either weeks or months —
17 
A. Yes, it wasn't —
18 
Q. 
but it was more than a few days? 
19 
A. Yes. 
20 
Q. Okay. And how were you contacted about 
21 
the second occasion? 
22 
A. I v
. I was actually in the vehicle with 
23 
and 
, and they were going over there. 
Q. And whose vehicle was it? 
27 (Pages 300 to 303) 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
Electronically signed by Cynthia hopkins (601.051-976-2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-061-976-2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-051-976-2934) 
a andisa-b csdA 107-goal n 
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