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1. Later in the interview, we tell her about what
2 we have in her testimony to the grand jury and her
3 statements made to detective And she really is
4 having a difficult time trying to remember who told her to
5 take off her clothes and her pants. As we are walking
6 through the sexual activity, she does recall and states.
7 that it was Mr. Epstein who told. her to take off her
pants.
8
9 I guess I'll go to the third discrepancy. Is
10 there anything I left off with that?
11 Q Well, does she report that when the assistant
12 leads -- or the blonde lady leads her upstairs, that the
13 blonde lady also said, "Get undressed," but that
14 didn't get fully undressed?
15 A That's what she said in her statement to the
16 detective, when she gives her first statement. She tells
17 us again last night that that's what she recalled.
18 Q That the lady said first, "Get undressed," but
19 she doesn't get fully undressed. And when Jeffrey comes
20 back, he said, "Take your pants off."?
21 A Yes. And again, like I said, when we started
22 interviewing her and asking her about this, she did have a
23 hard time. But when we were walking through the sexual
24 activity, that's when she recalls who told her to take off
25 her pants.
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1 And I'll tell you, when we talked about the
2 sexual activity, and it comes out that she wasn't wearing
3 her underwear when
4 , she does not recall how they came off.
5 She cannot remember removing her underwear. She doesn't
6 remember if Mr. Epstein removed her underwear. She knows
7 her underwear was off, but she cannot tell you exactly at
8 what point her underwear was removed.
9 Q Let's talk about the third discrepancy.
10 A The third is the sexual activity, when she was
11 originally interviewed by detective about the
12
When detective
13 comes and sees her again a few weeks later, she does
14 tell her at that time that
15 She also says that to the grand jury, she talks about the
16
17 Last night she told us about
18
When we asked her about hiM
19
and that had told the police
20 department that she told us last
21 night that she by Mr. Epstein, but that she
22 thought only her and knew about this and that she
23 did not want her father to know that
24 She didn't want anybody to know, but she especially didn't
25 want her father to know, that that was her business. That
C-c-yi?t 66(3
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she did not know that had told anybody, she thought
2 it was only her and that knew. She was embarrassed
3 and didn't want anybody to know that.
4 Q Did she become visually upset?
5 A Yes, she began crying when we asked her about
6 . when she realized that we
7 knew about that, she became very upset and concerned about
8 her father. She mentioned that her father has read a lot
9 of the reports in the State of Florida, and has followed
10 the state's case. She was concerned about even telling
11 us, afraid that he would be able to read in our reports
12 about this.
13 We explained to her that the FBI's reporting is
14 a little bit different than the way the state -- those are
15 public records, and ours is part of our case file.
16 Q In addition to the fact that she had these
17 concerns about her father and she was embarrassed, in your
18 experience of interviewing victims of sexual abuse, is it
19 typical for them to not disclose all of the sexual
20 activity?
21 A Yes, it's very typical. And young girls, they
22 don't want to talk about it. This is just another case of
23 her not wanting to tell exactly what took place.
24 Q After that first visit to Mr. Epstein's house,
25 and the interviews with detective , did detective
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1 Q On April 1, the following day, did illilmake
2 calls to
3 A From the Palm Beach police department, they were
4 able to take voice mail messages left by Mon
5 phone stating that could come and work on Saturday
6 around 11:00.
7 Q I think you mentioned this 'last time, but in
8 case you didn't, did the Palm Beach police department do
9 trash pulls at Mr. Epstein's house?
10 A Yes, they did.
11 Q Was there anything of value related to this
12 series of calls that were recovered?
13 A Yes. There was a trash pull done in the
14 beginning of April, and in the trash there was a piece of
15 paper that on it had name, name, and I
16 believe it was 10:30 listed on the piece of paper.
17 Q It said with on Saturday at 10:30?
18 A Yes, it did.
19 Q In addition to the actual recordings of those
20 phone calls and voice mail messages, do you also have
21 telephone records from both cell phone and
22 cell phone that match up?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Just to go back to something that you mentioned.
25 Who actually gave the $300 cash to at the day she was
(„9-21 iqt)
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Page 26
1 at Mr. Epstein's house?
2 A Mr. Epstein.
3 Q You mentioned a girl named
4 A Yes.
5 Q Was also interviewed?
6 A Yes, she was.
7 Q Was she asked about going With to take
8 girls to Mr. Epstein's house?
9 A Yes.
10 0 Was she asked who the youngest-looking girl was?
11 A Yes.
12 Q What did she say?
13 A She discussed looking young in her
14 interview with the Palm Beach police department.
15 Those are all of my questions
16 for you now. If you could please step outside, I'll
17 see if the grand jurors have any.
18 (Witness excused, and then returned.)
19 BY■
20 Q Agent , we have just a few questions.
21 One relates to the conversation between Mr. Epstein and
22 about his exploits with other girls. Did Mr. Epstein
23 say anything about the age of those girls?
24 A He said that -- in particular on one case he
25 talked about a young girl that he was in the back seat
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1 NM ask MI to make what are called controlled calls?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Can you explain to the grand jury what a
4 controlled call is?
5 A A controlled call is where we actually have a
6 listening device, where we have an individual place a call
7 to somebody and we are able to record the other person's
8 voice and the conversation that takes place between the
9 person that we're having make the call and the person that
10 they are calling.
11 Q Who did detective ask to call?
12 A was asked to call on the phone.
13 Q And did she do so?
14 A Yes, she did.
15 Q Can you tell the grand jury when the calls were?
16 A I believe the first call was made towards the
17 end of March, I believe it was March 30. called
18 at the Olive Garden where works. was
19 concerned that father had found out somehow and
20 that they knew about it. And she refers to him as
21 Jeffrey, but Mr. Epstein.
22 told her that they did not know about
23 Mr. Epstein. Later in the conversation tells her
24 that Mr. Epstein would like her to come back and work for
25 him, and that maybe she could work for him tomorrow. So
koly3
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1 they agreed that there would be a call between and
2 tomorrow, that will call tomorrow.
3 Q were there calls also made on March 31 of 2006?
4 A There were two calls made on March 31. The
5 first one she doesn't connect to . The second call
6 that was made a short time later, answers the phone.
7 Again, there is a discussion about coming to work for
8 Mr. Epstein. tells -- one of the comments that
9 is made is, "The more you do, the more you make." is
10 asking her how much can I make.
11 Again, detective is there, and is
12 asking , how much can I make. is telling
13 that she'll have to ask Mr. Epstein that, that she is
14 going to see Mr. Epstein tomorrow and that she'll talk to
15 Mr. Epstein. There is conversation about and her
16 twin sister possibly coming to Mr. Epstein's house. There
17 is some discussion about her coming to work for
18 Mr. Epstein.
19 Q Just so it's clear, because there were a lot of
20 shes, is telling that is going to see
21 Epstein the following day?
22 A Yes.
23 Q And that is going to set up a schedule
24 with Mr. Epstein for and her sister to work for him?
25 A Yes.
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Page 27
1 with, and her parents were in the front seat. He told
2 that they were having sex in the back seat were
3 doing sexual things in the back seat while he was carrying
4 on a conversation with the parents in the front seat. I
5 guess they were on their way home from a business party.
6 This was one of the stories that he had talked about.
7 Q But at no time did he provide any specific ages
8 about any of those girls?
9 A No.
10 Q what was age at the time she took
11 to Mr. Epstein's house?
12 A She was 18.
13 Q Did Mr. Epstein ask anything about her age?
14 A He did. He asked her how old she was, she said
15 she was 18. He asked her what grade she was in, she said
16 she was in the 12th grade. He asked her where she went to
17 school, and she said she went to
18 Q I know we will be doing a lot more discussion
19 about later. But could you tell us briefly how
20 was recruited to go to Mr. Epstein's house?
21 A was at the beach, and two individuals
22 approached her about making money and giving a massage to
23 Mr. Epstein.
24 Q How old was when she first went to
25 Mr. Epstein's house?
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1 A Through phone records, we have contact between
2 and starting at age 17.
3 : Those are all the questions.
4 Thank you.
(Witness excused, and then returned.)
BY
7 Q The question was, was there any particular
evidence to suggest that Mr. Epstein knew that was
9 under the age of 18?
10 A I would say through the interviews of the
11 multiple girls that went to Mr. Epstein's house -- the way
12 that having seen last night, and now she's 16 -- this
13 was two years ago -- that age and behavior -- and
14 again, is that more circumstantial evidence? As far as
15 concrete evidence, no. But just by her appearance and her
16. mannerisms and how I observed her last night at age 16.
17 Q And that's consistent with what said
18 during her statement; correct?
19 A Yes, it is.
20 MS. : Any other questions?
21 JUROR: Did she look 18?
22 THE WITNESS: Does look 18? Not in my
23 opinion, sir.
24 MS. : All right. Any other questions?
25 Okay, thank you, very much.
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Page 29
1 (Witness excused.)
2
3
4 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
5
6 I CERTIFY pages 1 to 28 is a true transcript of
7 my shorthand notes of the testimony of
8 before the Federal Grand Jury, West Palm
9 Beach, Florida, on the 27th day of February, 2007.
10 Dated at West Palm Beach, Florida this 18th day
11 of March, 2007.
12
13
14
15
16
Philip W. May, Court Reporter
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Urriit9g(7
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