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1 MR. SCOTT: We don't agree on that point,
2 so let's go ahead.
3 MR. SCAROLA: It's of any help, I can
4 agree that you don't agree to any of my
5 objections.
6 MR. SCOTT: No, that's not true. I mean,
7 I'm trying to work with you, sir.
8 I have to tell you, this -- this is
9 obviously one of the most acrimonious
10 depositions I've sat through in my 40 plus
11 years because of the personalities involved
12 here and because of the personal issues. And
13 it's quite difficult for everybody in this
14 room.
15 MR. SCAROLA: I agree.
16 MR. SCOTT: And all I'm saying, and my
17 client is -- who's 77, is trying to defend his
18 life. And I understand you're trying to
19 vigorously -- and you're a great lawyer --
20 represent your clients. And it's -- this is
21 not the typical deposition. And we're trying
22 our very best, both of us.
23 MR. SCAROLA: Thank you. And you're
24 right, you and I do agree on something.
25 MR. SCOTT: As you said yesterday, more
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1 often than we usually say.
2 MR. SCAROLA: Yes, sir.
3 BY MR. SCAROLA:
4 Q. In interviews on January 4 and January 5,
5 you claim to have completed the necessary work to
6 identify documents exonerating you within an hour
7 after learning of the accusations that were made,
8 correct?
9 A. I don't remember having said that. But
10 within a minute, I had clear knowledge that every
11 document in the world would exonerate me because I
12 knew for absolute certainty that every aspect of her
13 allegation was totally false. That's why I
14 challenged the other side to produce videos, to
15 produce photographs. I knew that there could be no
16 evidence inculpating me because I knew I was
17 innocent. So I knew that all of my records would
18 prove that.
19 Facts are facts. And I just wasn't in any
20 contact or any sexual contact with
21 and I knew with absolute certainty that the facts
22 would completely exonerate me. And if your clients
23 had just called me, at the courtesy of simply
24 calling me, I would have been able to point them to
25 Professor Michael Porter of the Harvard Business
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1 School. I would have been able to -- to alert them
2 to the Ashes. I would have been able to tell them
3 that I keep little black books which have all of my
4 travel information. Although they were in the
5 basement of Martha's Vineyard, I would have been
6 happy to go up and get them.
7 If they had just simply called me, I would
8 have been able to persuade them without any doubt
9 that these allegations were false. If they needed
10 any persuading because I believe, as I sit here
11 today, that they knew they were false at the time --
12 certainly should have known, but I believe knew they
13 were false at the time that they leveled them.
14 Q. My question related to your gathering
15 documents that you claim exonerated you --
16 A. That's right.
17 Q. -- and your public statements were that
18 within an hour, you --
19 A. Can you --
20 Q. -- had gathered the documents --
21 MR. SCOTT: Listen to the question.
22 BY MR. SCAROLA:
23 Q. -- you had gathered the documents that
24 exonerated you, correct?
25 MR. SCOTT: You can refer.
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1 A. Where? Where? Can you point to that?
2 BY MR. SCAROLA:
3 Q. Well, I'm asking you, sir, based upon your
4 superb memory whether you remember having said --
5 MR. SCOTT: No, we're going to do --
6 BY MR. SCAROLA:
7 Q. -- on Jan --
8 MR. SCOTT: He's going to take a moment to
9 review the transcript and -- and that's any
10 witness is entitled to do that. So why don't
11 we take a break, he'll review transcript and
12 we'll come back? We've been going an hour --
13 MR. SCAROLA: Because I haven't asked him
14 a question about the transcript.
15 MR. SCOTT: You've asked --
16 MR. SCAROLA: I'm asking him a question
17 about his recollection.
18 MR. SCOTT: Based upon what he said in the
19 transcript.
20 MR. SCAROLA: No, I'm asking him whether
21 he has a recollection of having made public
22 statements that within an hour, he had gathered
23 the documents that proved his innocence,
24 exonerated him.
25
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1 BY MR. SCAROLA:
2 Q. Do you remember having made those
3 statements?
4 A. I do not, but it's true. I was able to
5 gather documents literally within an hour. I was
6 able to call Tom Ashe. He was able to access his
7 daughter's journal notes that I had taught his
8 daughter's class. I was able to find out where my
9 other documents were.
10 My wife made some phone calls immediately.
11 We called the Canyon Ranch. We called and
12 determined the dates of when I was in Florida. We
13 called the Porters. We very, very, very quickly
14 were able to gather information that conclusively
15 would prove that she was lying about me having had
16 sex with me on the island, in the ranch,
17 particularly those two I was able to prove
18 conclusively.
19 And when a woman lies deliberately and
20 willfully about two instances where she in great
21 detail claims she had had sex, I think you can be
22 clear that you should discount any other -- any
23 other false allegations.
24 MR. SCOTT: We've been going for an hour.
25 Let's take a break for a few minutes. Then we
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1 have another hour.
2 MR. SCAROLA: I'm almost ready to take a
3 break.
4 MR. SCOTT: Okay.
5 MR. SCAROLA: Could you read back the last
6 question, please?
7 First of all, I move to strike the
8 unresponsive speech.
9 And now read back the last question, if
10 you would.
11 (Requested portion read back as follows:)
12 THE REPORTER: "Do you remember having
13 made those statements?"
14 Do you want me to read prior to that?
15 MR. SCAROLA: No, that's fine. That's the
16 question that I asked.
17 BY MR. SCAROLA:
18 Q. Is the answer yes?
19 A. I don't remember specifically. I do
20 generally remember having said that your clients
21 could have easily discovered conclusive proof that
22 was lying about me and that I
23 had -- because I knew, of course, it was false
24 MR. SCAROLA: Tom --
25 A. -- been able to uncover such proof.
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1 MR. SCAROLA: That has nothing to do with
2 the question I asked --
3 MR. SCOTT: Let's take -- let's take a
4 break like I suggested and we'll come back and
5 then you can ask your question and -- okay?
6 MR. SCAROLA: Well, while the question is
7 pending, I would like an answer to the question
8 before we break.
9 MR. SCOTT: Did you answer the question?
10 THE WITNESS: I thought I did.
11 A. But what -- could you repeat the question?
12 I'll try to answer it in a yes or no if I can.
13 BY MR. SCAROLA:
14 Q. Did you make the statement that within an
15 hour of learning of these allegations, you had
16 gathered documents that completely exonerated you?
17 A. I don't recall those specific words --
18 Q. Thank you, sir.
19 A. -- but the truth --
20 MR. SCOTT: That's it, and I think he
21 indicated that before.
22 MR. SCAROLA: That would be very helpful
23 if we said that and then we stopped and we can
24 take a break.
25 MR. SCOTT: He previously had said that
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1 and then explained it but now you have it
2 directly answered. So we're -- we're at a
3 break point.
4 MR. SCAROLA: Thank you.
5 VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record. The
6 time is approximately 11:01 a.m.
7 (Recess was held from 11:01 a.m. until 11:23 a.m.)
8 VIDEOGRAPHER: Going back on the record.
9 The time is approximately 11:23 a.m.
10 BY MR. SCAROLA:
11 Q. When did you last travel from outside the
12 State of Florida to arrive in Florida?
13 A. The day before yesterday, I think.
14 Q. And where did you travel from?
15 A. New York.
16 Q. When were you last in Boston, in the
17 Boston area?
18 A. About two weeks ago.
19 Q. So, if anyone had represented that you
20 were going to be traveling from Boston to Florida
21 this past weekend, that would have been a
22 misrepresentation; is that correct?
23 A. I have no idea what you're talking about.
24 Q. Well, I'm talking about your personal
25 travels. If anyone had represented that you were
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1 going to travel from Boston to Florida and canceled
2 travel arrangements from Boston to Florida this past
3 weekend, that would have been a misrepresentation,
4 correct?
5 A. I have no idea what you're talking about.
6 I'm sorry.
7 Q. Well, what is it that you don't understand
8 about that question? Either you were in --
9 A. The basis --
10 Q. -- Boston and were planning on traveling
11 from Boston to Florida this past weekend or the last
12 time you were in Boston was two weeks ago, so you
13 couldn't have been planning
14 A. I --
15 Q. -- on traveling from Boston to Florida.
16 A. I was actually in Boston -- now that I
17 checked my calendar, I was actually in Boston --
18 here, I have -- aha. It says -- and my calendar
19 says I was in Boston. Then it says leave for
20 Florida, but that got changed. Yes, that got
21 changed, right.
22 Q. May I see that, please?
23 A. No, this is my personal calendar.
24 Q. Yes, I'm sorry, but if you refer to
25 anything to refresh your recollection --
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1 A. I have --
2 Q. -- during the course of the deposition, I
3 am permitted to examine it.
4 A. I have lawyer-client privileged
5 information in here, so I can't give it to you. I
6 can give it to you in a redacted form. I have a
7 quote from David Boies in here, which I'm sure --
8
MR. SCOTT: Don't --
9 A. -- nobody is going to want to see --
10 MR. SCOTT: We'll make a copy and give it
11 to you.
12 MR. SCAROLA: Thank you. Would you hand
13 it to your counsel, please?
14 MR. SCOTT: On that note, hold on to that.
15 THE WITNESS: But I need that back.
16 MR. SCOTT: Of course. Don't worry.
17 MR. SIMPSON: Hold on to it.
18 MR. SCOTT: That's why I gave it to him
19 because I'd lose it.
20 BY MR. SCAROLA:
21 Q. Before January 21, 2015, what information
22 did you have regarding what Bradley Edwards and Paul
23 Cassell had gathered in the course of investigating
24 the accuracy of ' accusations
25 against you?
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1 A. Well, first, I knew that anything they
2 gathered --
3 MR. INDYKE: Objection to the extent that
4 requires --
5 MR. SCOTT: Whoa.
6 : -- you to disclose anything
--
7 you gave
8
THE COURT REPORTER: I can't hear.
9 I'm sorry, Mr. Indyke, can you repeat your
10 objection?
11 MR. SCOTT: Can you say that a little
12 louder?
13 MR. INDYKE: Darren Indyke. I would
14 object to the extent that your answer would
15 disclose anything you -- you obtained or
16 learned or any knowledge you gained in
17 connection with your representation of Jeffrey
18 Epstein.
19 MR. SCOTT: Do you understand that
20 instruction?
21 THE WITNESS: I do, yes.
22 Could you repeat the question?
23 BY MR. SCAROLA:
24 Q. Yes, sir. I want to know what information
25 you had regarding what Bradley Edwards and Paul
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1 Cassell had done in the course of their
2 investigation of the credibility of the accusations
3 made by against you?
4 A. Well, first and foremost, the most
5 important piece of information I had was my firm and
6 complete knowledge and memory that I had never had
7 any sexual contact with ever under
8 any circumstances or any other underage girls. So I
9 knew
10 Q. The question I'm asking, sir
11 A. -- this information --
12 Q. -- focuses on what knowledge you had
13 regarding what Bradley Edwards and Paul Cassell did
14 in the course of their investigation of the
15 credibility of the accusations against you made by
16
17 A. That was the first and most important bit
18 of information; namely, that I couldn't have done it
19 and didn't do it. So I knew for sure that they
20 could not have conducted any kind of valid
21 investigation.
22 Second, I knew from -- that they also had
23 a letter from Mr. Scarola that said that multiple
24 witnesses had placed me in the presence of Jeffrey
25 Epstein and underage girls and I knew that
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1 Mr. Scarola's letter was a patent lie. And they had
2 access to that letter and that information.
3 I also knew they were relying on
4 depositions of two house people of Jeffrey Epstein.
5 And I've read these two depositions. And I'm sure I
6 knew of other -- other information as well.
7 I knew that they had stated -- I knew that
8 they had stated publicly, or you had stated publicly
9 on their behalf as a witness, that you had stated
10 publicly that you had tried to depose me on these --
11 on this subject. I knew that that was a blatant lie
12 and unethical conduct because nobody ever tried to
13 depose me on this subject.
14 I had never been accused, nor did I have
15 any knowledge that anybody had ever falsely accused
16 me of having any sexual encounters. And I had a
17 great deal of information about the paucity or
18 absence of any legitimate investigation. And I also
19 knew that they hadn't called me, they hadn't tried
20 to call me, there was no record of an attempt to
21 call me or e-mail me. My e-mail is available on my
22 website. My phone number is available on my
23 website.
24 The most basic thing they could have done,
25 as courts have said, when you're accusing somebody
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1 of outrageous, horrible, inexcusable misconduct, at
2 least call the person and ask them if they can
3 disprove it before you file a -- a statement. Not
4 even asking for a hearing on it, not even basically
5 seeking to prove it, just -- just putting it in a
6 pleading as if scrolling on a bathroom stall.
7 So, yes, I had -- I had a great basis for
8 making that kind of statement and I repeat it here
9 today. And we will find out in depositions what
10 basis they actually had. And I'm anxiously awaiting
11 Mr. Cassell's deposition this afternoon.
12 MR. SCAROLA: Move to strike the
13 non-responsive portion of that answer.
14 Could I have a standing objection to
15 unresponsive --
16 MR. SCOTT: Sure.
17 MR. SCAROLA: -- answers? That would be
18 helpful. Thank you. I appreciate that. That
19 will save us --
20 MR. SCOTT: Absolutely. No, any time.
21 MR. SCAROLA: save us some time.
22 MR. SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
23 BY MR. SCAROLA:
24 Q. The one portion of what you just said that
25 directly responded to my question was you knew in
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1 early January of 2015 that Bradley Edwards and Paul
2 Cassell had the sworn testimony of two -- did you
3 refer to them as house --
4 A. House people.
5 Q. House staff?
6 A. House staff.
7 Q. House staff of Jeffrey Epstein's
8 A. That's right.
9 Q. -- correct?
10 And those two individuals are Juan Alessi
11 and Alfredo Rodriguez, correct?
12 A. That's right.
13 Q. And you, in fact, were aware of the
14 existence of that testimony from shortly after the
15 time that the testimony was given, weren't you?
16 A. Well, I was certainly aware of it at the
17 time I made these statements.
18 Q. Yes, sir. But you also knew as far back
19 as 2009, when this sworn testimony was given, that
20 you were specifically identified by name in the
21 sworn testimony of Jeffrey Epstein's house staff
22 members, right?
23 A. I was identified by name in a manner that
24 completely exculpated me, yes.
25 Q. Okay. Well, let's -- let's take a look at
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1 your assertion that the testimony of these two
2 individuals completely exculpates you.
3 A. Uh-huh.
4 Q. The following question was asked of
5 MR. SCOTT: What you are reading from?
6 MR. SCAROLA: I'm reading from the
7 deposition transcript.
8
BY MR. SCAROLA:
9 Q. The following question was asked of
10 MR. SCOTT: The deposition transcript --
11 BY MR. SCAROLA:
12 Q. -- of Mr. Juan -- Mr. Juan Alessi and --
13 MR. SCOTT: Let me object to the -- first
14 of all, let me object to this format because he
15 has not been provided a part of the deposition.
16 You're reading portions from the deposition --
17 MR. SCAROLA: Yes, I am.
18 MR. SCOTT: -- which can be taken out of
19 context. He has not had the ability to review
20 the deposition. This is improper.
21 MR. SCAROLA: Okay.
22 MR. SCOTT: Cross-examination.
23 BY MR. SCAROLA:
24 Q. Do you recall the following questions
25 having been asked of Mr. Alessi and the following
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1 answers have been given during the course of this
2 deposition which you contend completely exonerates
3 you?
4 "Question: Do you have any recollection
5 oil', referring to , coming to
6 the house when Prince Andrew was there?
7 "Answer: It could have been, but I'm not
8 sure.
9 "Question: When Mr. Dershowitz was
10 visiting --
11 "Answer: Uh-huh.
12 "Question: -- how often did he come?
13 "Answer: He came pretty -- pretty often.
14 I would say at least four or five times a year.
15 "Question: And how long would he stay
16 typically?
17 "Answer: Two to three days.
18 "Question: Did he have massages sometimes
19 when he was there?
20 "Answer: Yes. A massage was like a treat
21 for everybody. If they wanted, we call the
22 massage, and they get -- excuse me -- and they
23 have a massage.
24 "Question: You said that you set up the
25 massage tables, and would you also set up the
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1 oils and towels?
2 "Answer: Yes, ma'am.
3 "Question: And did you ever have occasion
4 to go upstairs and clean up after the massages?
5 "Answer: Yeah, uh-huh.
6 "Question: Did you ever find any
7 vibrators in that area?
8 "Answer: Yes. I told him yes.
9 "Question: Would you describe for me what
10 kinds of vibrators you found?
11 "Answer: I'm not too familiar with the
12 names, but they were like big dildos, what they
13 call the big rubber things like that
14 (indicating). And I used to go and put my
15 gloves on and pick them up, put them in the
16 sink, rinse it off and put it in Ms. Maxwell --
17 Ms. Maxwell had in her closet, she had like a
18 laundry basket. And you put laundry in. She
19 have full of those toys."
20 Is that testimony that exonerates you,
21 Mr. Dershowitz? Is that what you were referring to?
22 MR. SCOTT: Let me -- objection to the
23 form, improper cross examination by taking
24 excerpts out of depositions of witnesses.
25
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1 BY MR. SCAROLA:
2 Q. Is it your contention that that testimony,
3 under oath, of your friend, Mr. Epstein's staff
4 person, exonerates you?
5 A. First, a little background. Mr. Alessi
6 was fired for theft of material from Mr. Epstein, so
7 Mr. Alessi was not on a friendly basis with Jeffrey
8 Epstein.
9 Second, the description of the dildos and
10 sex toys clearly refers to the area of the house
11 that I was never in, the area of Ms. Maxwell's room,
12 rather than the area of the room that I stayed in.
13 Third, he gives no timeframe for the
14 visits.
15 And, fourth, he certainly didn't in any
16 way confirm that I was there while
17 was there. His answer was simply that I was there
18 from time to time. He's wrong about that. During
19 the relevant timeframe, I was never in the house.
20 And even taking outside the relevant
21 timeframe, the only time I was in the house for more
22 than one day was when my family, my wife, my son, my
23 daughter-in-law, my then probably seven or
24 eight-year-old granddaughter, who just graduated
25 Harvard, and my probably four-year-old grandson, who
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1 is a third-year student at Harvard, were all there
2 with me. That was the only time that I stayed over
3 more than one night. And I never stayed even one
4 night during the relevant timeframe.
5 But most importantly, he gives no
6 timeframe. And clearly his reference to the sex
7 toys is a reference to the part of the house that I
8 was never permitted in and never entered.
9 Q. What is the question that you think you
10 were answering?
11 A. Whether --
12 MR. SCOTT: He was explaining to you
13 exactly why he felt that that was
14 inappropriate, which is exactly what you asked
15 him.
16 MR. SCAROLA: No, it is not.
17 MR. SCOTT: Well, it is my recollection,
18 so I don't know --
19 MR. SCAROLA: Well, then
20 MR. SCOTT: I think he was defending --
21 MR. SCAROLA: Let me try the same question
22 over again.
23 MR. SCOTT: I think he was defending
24 his -- his position.
25 THE WITNESS: Right.
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